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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — Idea protection]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="https://www.soliforum.com/feed/atom/topic/158/" />
	<updated>2013-01-04T02:47:17Z</updated>
	<generator>PunBB</generator>
	<id>https://www.soliforum.com/topic/158/idea-protection/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8462/#p8462" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>And everybody knows about Microsoft patenting the [Page Up] and [Page Down] keys (or at least the concept of them) decades after the fact. In Australia we have a separate section of IP laws that let you register a design so that on top of Copyright, you can protect the overall look of your invention.</p><p>&quot;Have you considered registering a design? A design protects the visual appearance of a product and can be a valuable commercial asset.<br />A design is the overall appearance of a product. This includes the shape, configuration, pattern and ornamentation which, when applied to a product, give it a unique visual appearance.&quot;</p><p>Don&#039;t know what you have over in the US though.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[XyzBoBz]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/537/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2013-01-04T02:47:17Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8462/#p8462</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8449/#p8449" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>MacGyverS2000 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>but there&#039;s a reason lawyers are involved in the patent process (the wording of a patent is of the utmost importance to preventing gaping holes someone can design around), which raises the cost very quickly into the $15-25k range.</p></blockquote></div><div class="quotebox"><cite>RGargus wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Further, he said to patent it would be between 10 to 20 thousand</p></blockquote></div><br /><p>Dang I dunno where you guys are getting your <em><span class="bbu">cheap</span> patent attorneys</em>&nbsp; <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" />&nbsp; a little project for my company shot beyond $50k in lawyer fees</p><br /><div class="quotebox"><blockquote><p>Claim 6:&nbsp; An apparatus comprising:<br />a detector that detects, at a point on a <em>XX</em> that runs from a <em>XX</em> to a <em>XX</em>, a <em>XX</em> signal that is being transmitted from said <em>XX</em> to said <em>XX</em> to <em>XX</em> said <em>XX</em> to <em>XX</em> a <em>XX</em>, thus yielding a detected signal; and a transmitter that transmits, in response to receipt of said detected signal, a <em>XX</em> signal that causes a <em>XX</em> of <em>XX</em> that initializes said <em>XX</em> to <em>XX</em>.</p><p>Claim 7:&nbsp; The apparatus of claim 6, wherein..&nbsp; &nbsp;<strong><em>oh you get the idea</em></strong></p></blockquote></div>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[bahstrike]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/180/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2013-01-03T23:02:21Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8449/#p8449</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8441/#p8441" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>danny wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>you can take that two ways.<br />Rich companies will crap all over you if you hope to invalidate their patents with saying I had prior art uploaded online first.<br />Or, if you already got your product to market and in shops and already got rich, do you really care about loosing small amounts of money when someone tries to copy you?</p></blockquote></div><p>&#039;Small amounts of money&#039; is relative and it depends. Am I thriving with a growing company and an individual or two is making a few thousand here and there off of my products? I probably wouldn&#039;t care at all. Is an individual or small business gaining similar size to me at just a few thousands dollars? I probably would care.</p><p>The discussion of idea men/women is similar to that of artists/creative types. Companies need the ideas and art but they seem to regard the individuals that provide them as if the company could do without them. That&#039;s why I stopped drawing.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[BigHache]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/20/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2013-01-03T21:17:53Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8441/#p8441</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8369/#p8369" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Brad wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Prior art can invalidate a patent though, if you can prove prior art to someone else&#039;s patent.</p></blockquote></div><p>I&#039;m pretty sure that there is plenty of prior art for phones with round corners, or icons depicting phones that are green squares with slightly round corners and a symbol for a phone on it, (in fact I&#039;m fairly sure this is what the old BT phone card pay phone booths used to look a bit like.</p><p>I&#039;m obviously talking about the apple/samsung spat with the phone and the icons etc.</p><p>I have no strong views either way on this, (I genuinely don&#039;t care about either company). but what I would say is proving prior art, filling patent disputes can be a long and (very costly) business.</p><p>being right doesn&#039;t matter if you are rich.</p><p>you can take that two ways.<br />Rich companies will crap all over you if you hope to invalidate their patents with saying I had prior art uploaded online first.<br />Or, if you already got your product to market and in shops and already got rich, do you really care about loosing small amounts of money when someone tries to copy you?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[danny]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/39/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2013-01-03T13:15:52Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8369/#p8369</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8048/#p8048" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Prior art can invalidate a patent though, if you can prove prior art to someone else&#039;s patent.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Brad]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/2/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-12-27T20:53:14Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8048/#p8048</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8043/#p8043" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>It&#039;s already first to file really,</p><p>And prior art prove nothing.</p><p>Take the patent granted to makerbot for their automated build platform.</p><p>A conveyor belt is hardly unique, and the entire concept was discussed at length (with rough designs) on Adrian bowmans reprap blog.</p><p>Basically, if you&#039;ve got a great idea keep it to yourself until you have patent protection. Or the product in a shop if you go without a patent.<br />The idea that if you put it online it shows prior art. Or write down your ideas ant get notorised or post it to yourself dated/recorded delivery etc is rubbish.</p><p>Work only with people that you know and trust. <br />Protect your ideas and then share your ideas.</p><p>I&#039;m not sure where this sits with a company getting a patent granted on ideas developed by the open source community (the automated build platform patent suggests that there is nothing to stop a company patenting your open source ideas).</p><br /><p>I would think that actual product on sale would be prior art.</p><p>Sadly this may not stop a person copying your idea and getting a patent on your idea, but it does mean that you have a better chance of challenging the validity of their patent when/if they use that patent against you.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[danny]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/39/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-12-27T19:05:41Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8043/#p8043</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8038/#p8038" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I wouldn&#039;t really worry about a patent until you have something that&#039;s actually worth the effort. You talk about protecting your design. The best way to do that is &quot;Keep you mouth shut!&quot; Sorry, I&#039;m not trying to be smart. Most things are stolen because the person inventing them is so excited they start showing and bragging about what they are working on. There are people everywhere looking to take someone else&#039;s work and run with it.</p><p>The old World War II saying plays here also: &quot;Loose lips sink ships.&quot; You have the machine to work on in private. Until you are really ready to try and produce it don&#039;t go telling or showing anything to anyone. In a lot of cases the cost of a patent isn&#039;t worth the effort unless your return would be in the millions. Getting a product out to market fast, make a profit and move on. You&#039;ll end up with more of the money in your pocket instead of the lawyers pocket.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Irish]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/464/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-12-27T17:56:53Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8038/#p8038</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/8001/#p8001" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I looked into getting a patent at one time.&nbsp; My lawyer finally advized me that to just hit and run was my best shot.&nbsp; By that, he was suggesting that I should set up mfg, set up marketing, and hit it fast and furious since in his words, &#039;If there is money in it, someone WILL take it away, legally or otherwise.&quot;&nbsp; Further, he said to patent it would be between 10 to 20 thousand, and that with that same money, I could get a long ways toward marketing the product and profit until someone beat me out of it.&nbsp; Dont know if that is the best advice, but since I didnt have 10 to 20 k to do either.. it was mute.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[RGargus]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/283/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-12-27T04:01:41Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/8001/#p8001</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1362/#p1362" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>just sounds like a scam being perpetrated by the patent office to force people into patenting a good idea.<br />if you can prove prior knowledge that should be sufficient.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Stoney]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/30/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-15T15:06:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1362/#p1362</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1339/#p1339" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>s4 is pretty spot on...First to File will go into effect in March 2013...</p><p>One of the best ways to go cost efficiently is to submit a Provisional Application prior to any public disclosure (uploading to Youtube / Thingiverse, or any form of offer for sale) of your invention .&nbsp; This application will preserve your filiing date (first to file); and give you 1 year in which to file your full Utility Patent.&nbsp; The cost of filing a Provisional is not too expensive if you do it yourself online...about $180.00, I think.&nbsp; The trick is you need to provide enough detail in the Provisional to support / cover the protectable claims of your final Utility Patent.&nbsp; If you employ an Attorney to do this, you have a pretty good bet that it will read well to your full Utility application.&nbsp; A decent attorney will charge around $1,500.00 for a provisional.</p><p>If you feel your invention has good Market value, you can file in this manner and then within 1 year hopefully build enough cash from selling to cover the Utility Application.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[IronMan]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/131/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-14T12:39:42Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1339/#p1339</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1285/#p1285" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>The US patent law is changing in March from a &#039;first to invent&#039; to a &#039;first to file&#039; structure. Under the new law, if two inventors independently create the same invention, the first to file a patent application will get the patent, regardless of which one was the first inventor. If you show your invention to someone and they then file a patent on it the patent protection applies to them, not to you. </p><p>Reading a patent often just gives people ideas on how to solve the same problem another way and so your patent may not be preventing anyone from selling a similar product.</p><p>To make an actual product it is often difficult to do so without violating someones patent. Large companies have portfolios of patents and they often trade or sell access. It is very difficult for a small organization to successfully defend a patent against a large company.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[s4]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/124/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-12T15:57:12Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1285/#p1285</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1276/#p1276" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Patent&#039;s are great for us re-inventors.&nbsp; In the Patents, have to explain how the invention is intended to work, and have about 20 points of uniqueness.&nbsp; When designing a new product, you can use the Patent as a guideline, throw out all the points of uniqueness that you can design around; and Bingo you have a new unique concept...</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[kendall.miller]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/122/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-12T14:26:05Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1276/#p1276</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1275/#p1275" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Jinja wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>A great TED talk on patents.&nbsp; It&#039;s basically explaining that all ideas are remixes of old ones and that patents stifle creativity. It also has some funny contradicting Steve Jobs quotes.</p></blockquote></div><p>Yeah I&#039;ve seen that TED talk, and I&#039;m one of the biggest Steve Jobs downplayers around, I know everything he did was stolen, modified, and marketed.&nbsp; Steve Jobs was a world class marketing genius, but he never invented a single thing.&nbsp; </p><div class="quotebox"><cite>roughtyper wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Not to rain on your parade, but the cost of the patent isn&#039;t the only thing...you still have to defend it.</p></blockquote></div><p>You have to defend it if it&#039;s a big enough idea for someone to steal and reproduce, my inventions are not game changers in that respect.&nbsp; There&#039;s a decent chance that someone overseas could want to produce it, but at that point it would only be after seeing my success, at which time I should have the money to defend if necessary.&nbsp; </p><p>The thing that I&#039;m in awe about every day since getting my SD is that I can be sitting on my couch and come up with an idea, since I&#039;m fluent in Solidworks and have 15yrs engineering background, I can model up that idea in 10-15 minutes and start the print.&nbsp; From the time the idea pops into my head to the time I&#039;m holding the working model in my hand is a couple hours, and if I want to change something I&#039;ve got the second generation in my hand a few hours later.&nbsp; The amount of time and expense this machine has eliminated is just mindblowing.&nbsp; I literally have a plastic bag in my car with 6 working prototypes of inventions I&#039;ve been kicking around for years but the cost and the thought of how to protect the idea during the process of having prototypes made has kept me from moving forward.&nbsp; </p><p>The issue that I have from here is where do I go next, I know there&#039;s a mountain of information about it on the internet and in the link you provided, but with a full time job, an hour commute and 3 kids, my time is very limited.&nbsp; I&#039;m thinking my sleeping is going to take a hit just so I have a chance to do more research on how to move forward.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[cmetzel]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/78/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-12T14:19:57Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1275/#p1275</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1270/#p1270" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Not to rain on your parade, but the cost of the patent isn&#039;t the only thing...you still have to defend it.</p><p>I don&#039;t seem to be able to insert links, but &quot;inventionstatistics dot com&quot; places those costs at over $1 million.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[roughtyper]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/113/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-12T13:33:33Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1270/#p1270</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Idea protection]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/1166/#p1166" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>A great TED talk on patents.</p><p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1s_PybOuY0">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1s_PybOuY0</a></p><p>It&#039;s basically explaining that all ideas are remixes of old ones and that patents stifle creativity. It also has some funny contradicting Steve Jobs quotes.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Jinja]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/15/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2012-09-09T23:58:32Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/1166/#p1166</id>
		</entry>
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