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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — Abrasive additives]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="https://www.soliforum.com/feed/atom/topic/14659/" />
	<updated>2016-05-15T03:16:17Z</updated>
	<generator>PunBB</generator>
	<id>https://www.soliforum.com/topic/14659/abrasive-additives/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122871/#p122871" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Revolve3D wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Genesat1 and ttabbal</p><p>The price per pound will be around $12. We will begin by only offering a 2lbs choice, not 17lbs big box just yet. Lets see how things go before we purchase a huge amount of resin. </p><p>The PETG does need to be dried but this is easy to do. Following Ggalisky&#039;s advice we purchased a Presto dehydrator from amazon. I have used it several times to dry PETG and it works great.</p></blockquote></div><p>I ordered the Filastruder last week, but the Filawinder is on backorder until 5/25 (I considered going without the kit, but when you add all the electronics up they are practically pricing the kit at cost so it just makes sense to wait for the kit to be back in stock).&nbsp; </p><p>I imagine PETG is harder to extrude than even PLA, which I already know I&#039;ve read you need a winder for.&nbsp; Just to confirm, $12 a pound, not Kg so 1Kg of pellets would be $26.40?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[genesat1]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10612/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-15T03:16:17Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122871/#p122871</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122844/#p122844" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Genesat1 and ttabbal</p><p>The price per pound will be around $12. We will begin by only offering a 2lbs choice, not 17lbs big box just yet. Lets see how things go before we purchase a huge amount of resin. </p><p>The PETG does need to be dried but this is easy to do. Following Ggalisky&#039;s advice we purchased a Presto dehydrator from amazon. I have used it several times to dry PETG and it works great.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Revolve3D]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/5822/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-14T14:10:04Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122844/#p122844</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122585/#p122585" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve been considering building one of those &quot;Mostly printed CNC&quot; setups for a while now. <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /> Seems like a good way to try out the process and see how I like it. Interesting side use of it, making wood dust for filament. </p><p>I really like printing PETG. Sticks well, tough, can handle heat etc.. Never tried extruding my own, but I&#039;ve heard of a few people doing it. I usually dry pellets in a toaster oven @150F for 24+ hours, then store in sealed containers with desiccant. It&#039;s worked with everything else I&#039;ve tried, I imagine it would be alright for PETG as well unless it really holds the water. Even Nylon has worked fine for me though. I&#039;m never really in a hurry to make filament, so the time doesn&#039;t matter to me. </p><p>The only issue I see with powder is getting even mixing when extruding. It seems like it might work it&#039;s way to the bottom and mix in all at once. Or stick to the sides of the hopper. Might need to feed it in by the auger, metering it a little at a time. Or maybe I&#039;m overthinking it. <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[ttabbal]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/12588/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-10T15:49:10Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122585/#p122585</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122565/#p122565" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>ttabbal wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I&#039;d be interested in trying some metalics etc.. Not sure where one would get suitably fine wood dust, metals are easy enough though. Any particular reason to want to try with PETG? Just curious. I would need to get a bigger nozzle for the printer, but that shouldn&#039;t be too difficult. </p><p>For the filastruder, could one use a larger filter screen? Something like 0.7mm for a 0.8mm printer nozzle... That would likely not work so well with glass fiber (or carbon fiber), but for fine metal powder it seems like it would work. </p><p>Revolve3D: I&#039;m interested in pricing for PETG as well. Is the vacuum setup really required to dry it?</p></blockquote></div><p>I make my own fine wood dust with this <a href="http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:724999">http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:724999</a>, so that would actually be the easiest/cheapest additive for me to try. Plus, I could try all kinds that way - poplar, oak, pine, and under no circumstances incense cedar (I already hate the smell of that, before heating it up to plastic extrusion temperatures).</p><p>You could probably even get away with using the filter if you get a sufficiently fine metal powder - the filter is 250 microns, that equates to a #60 mesh (mesh size is inverse, so if something is stated to be 325 mesh that&#039;s actually much smaller than 60 mesh, but if it&#039;s rated at 30 mesh then that&#039;s much bigger than 60 mesh), so if you get something that is 99.6% -325 mesh then almost all of it would go right through the filter, and then you could just have the filter do it&#039;s job and block the larger pieces.</p><p>I&#039;m personally interested in PETG because I&#039;ve printed parts in PLA/ABS/PETG/Polycarbonate (and attempted in POM - ugh, polycarbonate is much easier to avoid warping than POM, hated POM) in PLA the part - snapped without signs of stress, ABS - snapped after being under load for a bit, polycarbonate - held together with no sign of failure, but was not rigid - it flexed too much, PETG - held together, and didn&#039;t flex.&nbsp; So for me - it&#039;s the strongest under the use cases I have had.&nbsp; PETG also has amazing adhesion - I have a chuck of glass missing on my first printer because it stuck to that glass that much - and the glass was a permanent part of the bottom of that printed item - it never would come off.&nbsp; Sure, that can be a disadvantage to say the least - but as long as you do something like use blue painters tape (the tape loses adhesion to the glass before the PETG eats your glass bed) that disadvantage becomes an advantage.</p><p>You just have to dry it REALLY good (I&#039;ve read at least) to avoid air bubbles in the middle of your filament (that would cause stringing and layer voids later).&nbsp; Your way of doing that is up to you.&nbsp; I personally like vacuum because in a perfect vacuum water boils at 70F.&nbsp; That means if I heat PLA right up to 55C, then put it in a vacuum dessicator, it pulls all the air out of there, I will have a white mist coming out of the pump - water vapor - actual water coming out of the filament and turning into a gas.&nbsp; Then, I can just close the valve, and it&#039;ll stay dry until the time I need to use it.&nbsp; All without heating the plastic up past it&#039;s Tg and deforming it.&nbsp; Which I guess is probably more important when you&#039;re trying to dry filament than it is when you are just trying to dry some pellets.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[genesat1]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10612/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-10T02:11:37Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122565/#p122565</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122542/#p122542" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;d be interested in trying some metalics etc.. Not sure where one would get suitably fine wood dust, metals are easy enough though. Any particular reason to want to try with PETG? Just curious. I would need to get a bigger nozzle for the printer, but that shouldn&#039;t be too difficult. </p><p>For the filastruder, could one use a larger filter screen? Something like 0.7mm for a 0.8mm printer nozzle... That would likely not work so well with glass fiber (or carbon fiber), but for fine metal powder it seems like it would work. </p><p>Revolve3D: I&#039;m interested in pricing for PETG as well. Is the vacuum setup really required to dry it?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[ttabbal]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/12588/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-09T19:59:39Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122542/#p122542</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122477/#p122477" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>Revolve3D wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>How much PETG are you looking for? I have a bit in stock and will be getting more Amphora PETG soon. It makes great filament.</p></blockquote></div><p>I need to get a Filastruder, and put it together first.&nbsp; I do research on things before I buy them (eg read the forums, ask questions to make sure there isn&#039;t something obvious I&#039;m missing in relation to what I want it to do, check up what the ongoing costs are), and I had noticed as part of all that looking around that it seemed like none of the listed suppliers had PETG on their websites.&nbsp; </p><p>Down the road I know I&#039;ll want some though.&nbsp; How much do you normally stock and if you sold it in the same size as your ABS (17lbs) what do you think it&#039;d cost roughly?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[genesat1]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10612/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-08T12:47:20Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122477/#p122477</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122476/#p122476" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>How much PETG are you looking for? I have a bit in stock and will be getting more Amphora PETG soon. It makes great filament.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[Revolve3D]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/5822/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-08T11:36:39Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122476/#p122476</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122467/#p122467" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>elmoret wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I think part of the reason is availability. ABS, PLA, and eBay random pellets are easily available. I lot of folks don&#039;t know where to get powdered metals, and may not have suitable wood dust and/or may not have 0.8-1.2mm nozzles.</p></blockquote></div><p>Yeah, I can understand that.&nbsp; Possibly worried about breaking something?&nbsp; I can see the appeal of making just standard plastic - I&#039;ve been thinking of putting a hotend on my MPCNC and printing 12x18 inch (or larger) prints. At $25 for 1Kg of PLA it&#039;s too expensive to play with, but at $8 per Kg it might be affordable to try. After sanding and painting it would be interesting to compare to CNC&#039;d projects.&nbsp; &nbsp;Wish PETG pellets were available somewhere.&nbsp; Even on Ebay there&#039;s only one seller with PETG pellets. I already have a vacuum dessicator setup to dry trimmer line (nylon, Dessert Extrusion brand only since they are known not to add fillers) so drying the PETG pellets shouldn&#039;t be a problem.&nbsp; I&#039;ve been doing a LOT of reading, and from what I understand despite the statements saying PETG doesn&#039;t absorb water - PETG pellets require a ton of drying to prevent air bubbles/voiding in the filament.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[genesat1]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10612/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-08T03:20:20Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122467/#p122467</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122455/#p122455" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I think part of the reason is availability. ABS, PLA, and eBay random pellets are easily available. I lot of folks don&#039;t know where to get powdered metals, and may not have suitable wood dust and/or may not have 0.8-1.2mm nozzles.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[elmoret]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/221/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-08T00:12:18Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122455/#p122455</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122449/#p122449" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>cmcc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Metal filament has already been done using a Filastruder, here is the link: </p><p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272029305_Thermo-mechanical_Characterization_of_MetalPolymer_Composite_Filaments_and_Printing_Parameter_Study_for_Fused_Deposition_Modeling_in_the_3D_Printing_Process">https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … ng_Process</a><br />.</p></blockquote></div><br /><p>I saw elmoret post that in another thread, but I didn&#039;t realize that was done with a Filastruder.&nbsp; I guess the &#039;university research paper&#039; approach to it conjured up images of some multithousand dollar industrial extrusion machine.&nbsp; If they can do that with a Filastruder though then that proves both that the machine can do it and also that mixing additives with ABS isn&#039;t a problem.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[genesat1]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10612/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-07T21:21:36Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122449/#p122449</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122446/#p122446" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>genesat1 wrote:</cite><blockquote><div class="quotebox"><cite>cmcc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh, I would definitely use one of the unfiltered nozzles.</p></blockquote></div><br /><p>I don&#039;t have a Filastruder yet, but am considering it.&nbsp; If I started out without a winder I&#039;d be pretty much limited to ABS from my understanding, but I was wondering.&nbsp; Everybody always adds additives to PLA, but it should be possible to add additives to ABS and using an unfiltered nozzle on the Filastruder right?&nbsp; If I use a .8mm-1.2mm nozzle on an E3D Volcano, and the unfiltered nozzle on the Filastruder - could I actually reuse my own sawdust for wood filament (the real fine dust that the HEPA vacuum filter catches that is)?</p><p>I&#039;ve been kind of surprised most people stick to &#039;normal&#039; plastics when I look in the DIY Material section - is it that people only need those materials or is it that the Filastruder doesn&#039;t really like additives?&nbsp; Am I too &#039;grandiose&#039; in my vision of putting sawdust in there, adding color changing pigment, or even 325 mesh metal powder and then extruding it through a .8mm nozzle?&nbsp; Sure a .4mm nozzle would clog on those things, but a .8mm shouldn&#039;t right?</p></blockquote></div><p>I feel very similar to you, I cannot understand how people are so hesitant to experiment with such an amazing opportunity, especially if they already have the machine.&nbsp; Metal filament has already been done using a Filastruder, here is the link: </p><p><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/272029305_Thermo-mechanical_Characterization_of_MetalPolymer_Composite_Filaments_and_Printing_Parameter_Study_for_Fused_Deposition_Modeling_in_the_3D_Printing_Process">https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio … ng_Process</a></p><p>325 mesh has only been tested with iron from what I&#039;ve seend, but to me that&#039;s enough to give it a shot with other metals as well. I currently have 325 brass, bronze, white bronze, silver nickel, and iron I&#039;m getting ready to run through my Filastruder once I finish putting it back together. I&#039;m also getting ready to experiment with some other fillers that I&#039;m not going to post about until I&#039;ve totally fleshed a few theories. </p><p>I&#039;m not sure about the sawdust, but I think you are on the right track as long as you can be sure the particles are small enough. </p><p>I would definitely recommend not just a 0.8mm volcano, but a hardened steal 0.8mm volcano. Even the larger nozzle will show significant wear from additives. You might want to experiment with doing a rough extrusion with the additives, then pelleting the resulting extrusion, and then re-extruding the pellets for maximum filler consistency. Might not be worth it and I&#039;ve not tested the difference myself, but if you run into consistency problems I would give it a shot. </p><p>I think there might be a reason that most composite filament is PLA, but I can&#039;t remember. I don&#039;t think there is any major reason that it can&#039;t be done with ABS, and the link I posted above was ABS with Iron and copper.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[cmcc]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/12265/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-07T20:32:08Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122446/#p122446</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122433/#p122433" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>cmcc wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Oh, I would definitely use one of the unfiltered nozzles.</p></blockquote></div><br /><p>I don&#039;t have a Filastruder yet, but am considering it.&nbsp; If I started out without a winder I&#039;d be pretty much limited to ABS from my understanding, but I was wondering.&nbsp; Everybody always adds additives to PLA, but it should be possible to add additives to ABS and using an unfiltered nozzle on the Filastruder right?&nbsp; If I use a .8mm-1.2mm nozzle on an E3D Volcano, and the unfiltered nozzle on the Filastruder - could I actually reuse my own sawdust for wood filament (the real fine dust that the HEPA vacuum filter catches that is)?</p><p>I&#039;ve been kind of surprised most people stick to &#039;normal&#039; plastics when I look in the DIY Material section - is it that people only need those materials or is it that the Filastruder doesn&#039;t really like additives?&nbsp; Am I too &#039;grandiose&#039; in my vision of putting sawdust in there, adding color changing pigment, or even 325 mesh metal powder and then extruding it through a .8mm nozzle?&nbsp; Sure a .4mm nozzle would clog on those things, but a .8mm shouldn&#039;t right?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[genesat1]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10612/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-07T16:43:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122433/#p122433</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122281/#p122281" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>This was what I tried extruding and failed:</p><p>&quot;Nylon 6/6 GF33 HS L BK&quot;</p><p><a href="http://www.lookpolymers.com/pdf/Techmer-ES-HiFill-PA666-GF33-HS-L-BK-33-Glass-Filled.pdf">http://www.lookpolymers.com/pdf/Techmer … Filled.pdf</a></p><p>Honestly, the fibers looked really long.&nbsp; I dont think it would even past unfiltered.</p><p>If anyone has *ANY* luck extruding anything with 30% glass fibers, I&#039;d love to hear about it.&nbsp; I have a useless 50# bag of 30% GF polypropylene some ebay guy sent me by mistake I don&#039;t know what to do with.&nbsp; I&#039;m hesitant about putting anymore GF through the filastruder.&nbsp; Disassembling it to clean it out is not a fun process.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[miglo]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10646/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-04T05:16:53Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122281/#p122281</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122271/#p122271" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I would definitely use one of the unfiltered nozzles. And the data sheet you listed is just nylon 6, not 6/6. I see the listing you won though and it looks like you got a good deal as far as ebay pellets, Nylon 6 pellets are usually more expensive than 6/6. </p><p>But that&#039;s why I use a broker, ebay is way to sketchy for this kind of thing.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[cmcc]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/12265/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-04T02:58:07Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122271/#p122271</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Abrasive additives]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/122257/#p122257" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>What actually happened, was that the filter was filtering out ALL the fibers...so it literally clogged the entire chamber....BUT the filtered nylon that came out, was ok, if not soft...but i didnt get enough out to really test it.&nbsp; By the time a handful of pellets was processed, the extruder was completely clogged.&nbsp; </p><p>Anyway I got a 42# bag of this coming this week:</p><p>RTP ESD C 200 6/6 NYLON BLK PELLETS <br /><a href="http://web.rtpcompany.com/info/data/esd/ESDC200A.htm">http://web.rtpcompany.com/info/data/esd/ESDC200A.htm</a></p><p>Hopefully I can get *something* out of it, otherwise I just blew $100. <img src="https://www.soliforum.com/img/smilies/big_smile.png" width="15" height="15" alt="big_smile" /></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[miglo]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10646/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-05-04T00:28:26Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/122257/#p122257</id>
		</entry>
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