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	<title type="html"><![CDATA[SoliForum - 3D Printing Community — Walls Breaking]]></title>
	<link rel="self" href="https://www.soliforum.com/feed/atom/topic/14237/" />
	<updated>2016-03-11T01:55:21Z</updated>
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	<id>https://www.soliforum.com/topic/14237/walls-breaking/</id>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119061/#p119061" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>carl_m1968 wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>On wsy around this is to actually sink the walls into the base by a millimeter or more and then the slicer should see them as all one part and not make an interface or weak point between them.</p></blockquote></div><p>Thats how I design my models, for 3D print. </p><p>Referring to the above green pics, post 6, all the interfaces are extruded into each other in the modeling prog.<br />In SW there is also a checkbox, Merge. If <span class="bbu">unchecked</span>, the model looks like separate pieces.<br />Ive ran into that prob. in the past and it does make a diff after export and printing. Slicer sees it as diff pieces.</p><p>The 1st pic, where that cross brace is, thats where the wall breaks very easily. In modeling, the brace extends into both walls and merged.<br />Im still thinking this is a slicer prob w/ Cura.&nbsp; Trying Slic3r see if makes a diff.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-11T01:55:21Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119061/#p119061</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119021/#p119021" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Model of the failed part, not the test walls</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[evanalmighty]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/8801/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-10T08:45:18Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119021/#p119021</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119015/#p119015" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>knucklbustr wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Thats an interesting and different approach. Extrude cut, rather than Extrude boss.<br />Does the slicer translate the model differently ?</p><p>I export STL w/ a somewhat high deviation and tolerance so any round object is smooth. </p><p>I have products that are listed combo metric/standard. 76mm w/ a 1.050&quot; bore. <br />And some customers that send drawings in fractions !<br />Thought about changing all to metric the other day. <br />But my inbox would be full from customers ques.<br />For personal use, try to adjust.</p></blockquote></div><br /><p>If you make a model by making a base then adding walls for the sides the slicer will see those as individual parts and may not slice the interface as structuraly solid as it could be. On wsy around this is to actually sink the walls into the base by a millimeter or more and then the slicer should see them as all one part and not make an interface or weak point between them. The other way is in your cad program is to start solid and remove what you dont need. Tinkercad calls it additive and subtractive modeling.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[carl_m1968]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-10T04:18:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119015/#p119015</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119012/#p119012" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Thats an interesting and different approach. Extrude cut, rather than Extrude boss.<br />Does the slicer translate the model differently ?</p><p>I export STL w/ a somewhat high deviation and tolerance so any round object is smooth. </p><p>I have products that are listed combo metric/standard. 76mm w/ a 1.050&quot; bore. <br />And some customers that send drawings in fractions !<br />Thought about changing all to metric the other day. <br />But my inbox would be full from customers ques.<br />For personal use, try to adjust.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-10T03:41:34Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119012/#p119012</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119006/#p119006" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>knucklbustr wrote:</cite><blockquote><div class="quotebox"><cite>mark.burton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes that is where you define the table</p></blockquote></div><p>Does this show it is using table 5 ?&nbsp; Where is it defined ?<br />#define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 5</p><p>Probably no reason I should get involved unless I have an accurate way of reading the hot end.</p></blockquote></div><br /><p>yes that is correct...</p><p>I would try a print like yours but I am in the middle of a 10 hour .02mm layer 20mm cal cube to see if my machine can do it. Also I would probably make my model different as I would make a a cube that is 76mm by 50.8mm then take away from the inside to achieve the 2.4mm walls.</p><p>Honestly it is much easier to use the metric system since most gcode is written based on it in the first place and most printer software is made for it as well. I live in in Dallas Texas and personally do everything now in metric as it is so much easier to scale and manage prints. </p><p>Most of us here are used to using it and can relate to dimensions based on it better than imperial measurements. Just saying it would be easier for you.. Only reason I knew your measurements was I used my calipers that can switch between the two.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[carl_m1968]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-10T01:24:59Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119006/#p119006</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119005/#p119005" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>evanalmighty wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>Can you upload the original stl model?</p></blockquote></div><p>Test prints are only a thin wall&nbsp; .093&quot; x 3&quot;L x2&quot;W</p><p>Is there something in particular ?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-10T01:14:28Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119005/#p119005</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/119004/#p119004" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>mark.burton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>yes that is where you define the table</p></blockquote></div><p>Does this show it is using table 5 ?&nbsp; Where is it defined ?<br />#define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 5</p><p>Probably no reason I should get involved unless I have an accurate way of reading the hot end.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-10T01:12:11Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/119004/#p119004</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118966/#p118966" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Can you upload the original stl model?</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[evanalmighty]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/8801/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-09T07:17:58Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118966/#p118966</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118963/#p118963" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>Did some wall test prints.<br />Model - .093&quot;x 3&quot; x2&quot;</p><p>Extrude temp 255c - 40mm/s speed- .3 layer-.8 shell thickness- 50% infill- measured part thickness .093&quot;<br />Hard to break<br />Extrude temp 260c - 40mm/s speed- .3 layer-.8 shell thickness- 50% infill- measured part thickness .094&quot;<br />Harder to break<br />Extrude temp 255c - 40mm/s speed- .3 layer- 50% infill- <strong>1.2 shell thickness- - measured part thickness .1010&quot;</strong><br />Can not break. Thickness out of spec. Oozing or too hot at ends.<br /><span class="postimg"><img src="http://soliforum.com/i/?dGBQtvp.jpg" alt="http://soliforum.com/i/?dGBQtvp.jpg" /></span></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-09T05:40:11Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118963/#p118963</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118962/#p118962" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>yes that is where you define the table</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[mark.burton]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10955/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-09T05:27:16Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118962/#p118962</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118950/#p118950" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>knucklbustr wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>.8, so that 2. (.4 nozzle)<br />1.2 would be 3</p><p>Before I go insane, need to eliminate possible hardware issues.<br />This could be classic de-lamination. Slowing speeds doesnt change anything.<br />So that leaves the bonding melt temp. Feedback reports 255c .<br />Before the E3D, I never went over 230c w/ ABS, so it seems suspicious.<br />My 60yo Simpson thermometer wont zero. DOA.<br />Ill have to do temperature test prints.</p></blockquote></div><p>You should definitely fix that, you should be able to print ABS as low as 230c on an E3D, if not lower.</p><p><strong>BUT</strong>, even if you do fix this, it will not solve your problem. As others have pointed out, this is entirely an issue with your design. FYI, even if you were injection molding this thing, it would still be incredibly flimsy and break easily, because <em>the design is not suitable for plastic</em>.</p><p>You only have a few ways you can resolve this. </p><p>1) Use ribs, as IronMan suggested<br />2) Fillet the walls on the inside or the outside. It doesn&#039;t matter which you choose, it&#039;s entirely dependent on your application.<br />3) Print the parts as separate pieces and acetone them together or bolt them together. Acetone will create a chemical bond between the two parts that is <strong>much</strong> stronger than a printed part by itself. Bolts will do the same. Acetone is the ideal glue for ABS, there&#039;s no need to use any other material for bonding ABS together.</p><p>This isn&#039;t a problem with your machine. You&#039;re simply not designing for the materials you intend to use. In general, with printed plastics, you should avoid sharp 90 degree angles where there are thin walls and/or no internal material. Additionally you should avoid harsh 90 degree angles between the XY plane and Z. When I was first starting out I found it very useful to observe how plastic things around the house were designed. One thing you will notice almost universally is that there are no harsh angles in most plastic products. They&#039;re simply too easy to break.</p><p>Here is a guide I found useful when I was first learning to design for 3D printing:<br /><a href="https://www.stratasysdirect.com/resources/fused-deposition-modeling/">https://www.stratasysdirect.com/resourc … -modeling/</a></p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[jagowilson]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7321/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-09T00:48:36Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118950/#p118950</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118948/#p118948" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<div class="quotebox"><cite>mark.burton wrote:</cite><blockquote><p>I currently don&#039;t print abs over 230 <br />what thermistor table are you using. it should be table 5</p></blockquote></div><p>Is this it, in configuration.h ?</p><br /><p>Extruder configuration&nbsp; </p><p>// What type of sensor is used?<br />// 1 is 100k thermistor (Epcos B57560G0107F000 - RepRap-Fab.org and many other)<br />// 2 is 200k thermistor<br />// 3 is mendel-parts thermistor (EPCOS G550)<br />// 4 is 10k thermistor<br />// 8 is ATC Semitec 104GT-2<br />// 5 is userdefined thermistor table 0<br />// 6 is userdefined thermistor table 1<br />// 7 is userdefined thermistor table 2<br />// 50 is userdefined thermistor table 0 for PTC thermistors<br />// 51 is userdefined thermistor table 0 for PTC thermistors<br />// 52 is userdefined thermistor table 0 for PTC thermistors<br />// 60 is AD8494, AD8495, AD8496 or AD8497 (5mV/degC and 1/4 the price of AD595 but only MSOT_08 package)<br />// 97 Generic thermistor table 1<br />// 98 Generic thermistor table 2<br />// 99 Generic thermistor table 3<br />// 100 is AD595<br />// 101 is MAX6675<br />// 102 is MAX31855<br />#define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_TYPE 5<br />// Analog input pin for reading temperatures or pin enabling SS for MAX6675<br />#define EXT0_TEMPSENSOR_PIN TEMP_0_PIN<br />// Which pin enables the heater</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-09T00:18:43Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118948/#p118948</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118891/#p118891" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>I currently don&#039;t print abs over 230 <br />what thermistor table are you using. it should be table 5</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[mark.burton]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/10955/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-08T03:19:37Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118891/#p118891</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118888/#p118888" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>.8, so that 2. (.4 nozzle)<br />1.2 would be 3</p><p>Before I go insane, need to eliminate possible hardware issues.<br />This could be classic de-lamination. Slowing speeds doesnt change anything.<br />So that leaves the bonding melt temp. Feedback reports 255c .<br />Before the E3D, I never went over 230c w/ ABS, so it seems suspicious.<br />My 60yo Simpson thermometer wont zero. DOA.<br />Ill have to do temperature test prints.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[knucklbustr]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7700/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-08T03:07:25Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118888/#p118888</id>
		</entry>
		<entry>
			<title type="html"><![CDATA[Re: Walls Breaking]]></title>
			<link rel="alternate" href="https://www.soliforum.com/post/118887/#p118887" />
			<content type="html"><![CDATA[<p>How many perimeter walls are you using? I would never use less than three for anything that needed to be structural.</p>]]></content>
			<author>
				<name><![CDATA[carl_m1968]]></name>
				<uri>https://www.soliforum.com/user/7731/</uri>
			</author>
			<updated>2016-03-08T03:04:47Z</updated>
			<id>https://www.soliforum.com/post/118887/#p118887</id>
		</entry>
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