elmoret wrote:

I feel your pain.

I came home to a 4 hour print that stopped after about an hour, because the filament snapped. I'd been using a piece of acrylic right on top of the steel frame, and the 90 degree turn was too much for the filament. It cooked in the nozzle for 3 hours until I got home, which surprisingly didn't clog immediately, but a hour or so later.

I swapped nozzles to clear the clog, but I did it with the Solidoodle power up, so I had the white LED lights. This ended up being a poor choice, as the +12v side of the hotend is always powered even if the extruder is off in software. I ended up shorting +12v into the 5v bus, which seems to have fried the ADCs on the 644 - they read very close to the same temperatures, 37deg on the hotend, 92 deg on the bed.

So, I've ordered a new Sanguinololu, with AVR chip, as I didn't want to roll the dice with other parts of the board being possibly damaged.

I just want it to work reliably!

Fixed this without a new AVR, by piping the A6 and A7 pins to the A0 and A1 pins, and making the requisite changes in pins.h, then updating firmware. I had (incorrectly) assumed that if two channels were reading incorrectly, that the whole port (all channels) were fried, since I (correctly) assumed they used a single ADC with a mux block. I did not realize that the failure could be in the mux block, only destroying two channels, instead of all of them. That led me to desolder the filtering capacitor on the extruder thermister, thinking (incorrectly) that it had failed. Finally, I realized the failure was in the mux block internal to the ATMega, and did this:

Awesome detective work!

My major issue with the website is that after that first print, Solidoodle's website is no further help at all.

This is a legitimate concern. How can we help?

We have to be careful how we tread here. Our intention is to give a quick start up. We want to avoid re-writing the original developers documentation (which mostly already exists.) There is already a big issue with customers believing we are the developers of the software. This is sort of what the WIKI is for, so perhaps I can interpret this as "More Wiki! Clear links to the Wiki!"?

Part of this is a nomenclature issue. From the troubleshooting -
The bottom layer of the part peels up off of the platform during a print

    Make sure the z-stage adjustment screw is set to print about .3mm above the build surface. For the first layer, the extruder should be slightly spreading each strand of plastic into a flat layer, not laying a thin strand of filament on top of the build surface. Try turning the z-stage adjustment screw counter-clockwise very slightly to raise or lower the nozzle on the first layer print.
    Make sure the build platform is clean. It is recommended to clean the build surface with a small amount of dish detergent or glass cleaner. Even finger oils can prevent the first layer from sticking.
    Make sure your build platform is level with the plane of the extruder movement. An uneven build surface can prevent the first layer from sticking on one side
    Try printing with a raft. A raft will give the part more surface area to stick to the heated build platform.
    It is vital that you wait for the build platform to heat to a proper temperature before you start printing. Prints on a cold surface will not properly adhere.

In no place do we ever say "Curling" but perhaps it is not obvious that this advice relates to curling.

We have videos dealing with these issues online. We'll better integrate them into the trouble shooting section. However, please do not be confused. Not all of these solutions are universally recognized. Some of them are closer to "quick fixes" and this is why you do not see every community solution on the website. We want there to be a clear divide between our official, experimentally verified advice, with community advice that might not always work. Some problems (i.e clogs) are just plain frustrating, and we are working to get better answers for everyone.

Again, we need specific criticisms. We've been working directly off our own website from the start, and it has worked sufficiently well for our internal practices. We are unsure of precisely which issues you would like covered, but we'd be willing to cover any suggestions. Also keep in mind that there is a certain confirmation bias on the forums - there are some problems that are far over represented here versus their real-world occurrence due to the fact that people with problems tend to navigate here.

Remember that not everyone has the same cognitive process. We see the website as reflecting a process of:
1)Install filament
2)Install software
3)Print
4)Possibly design parts.
A step to "inspect the Solidoodle" would confuse a large number of customers, and is unnecessary in the majority of cases.

Now as for our software install, I'd love to hear your suggestions for that. It's mostly "click through the installer" at this point. Again, we have to draw the line here between teaching the basics, and teaching the entire program. If we gave an entire explanation of every option in repetier for instance, a large majority of customers would be quite confused. This seems a little silly here on the forums, as most of you have a craving for further knowledge. It is a little beyond our scope to fully explain the art of 3D modeling to every customer. You could write a book about that subject. As an aside, repetier's developer (who is again, not us) has a philosophy of minimal documentation himself. He believes that the program is mostly self explanatory, and that most documentation should be held in the float over tool tips. The same goes for slic3r. While we are all about helping write documentation for these programs, it is just one facet of our program, and we have to be very careful not to overwhelm folks.

I'd like to see talk about the issues that everyone here knows are common (curling prints, for example) but are not mentioned at all on the website.

I feel that as a customer, I shouldn't have to turn to the community to get answers to issues that appear to be universally recognized. The troubleshooting section is a start, but for example, one bullet point says "Make sure your build platform is level with the plane of the extruder movement" with no mention of how to check that or fix it. Another says "it is vital that you wait for the build platform to heat to a proper temperature" without telling me what a proper temperature is. Pronterface comes configured with 80 degrees as the bed temperature for ABS, and then I read on this forum that up to 110 degrees is appropriate. (This came directly from your support staff: http://www.soliforum.com/post/10815/#p10815)

Now, I went into my purchase as a hacker knowing that the Solidoodle isn't a consumer mass-market product that would be printing flawless parts as soon as I opened the box. But your website sure doesn't do much to help those who might not realize what this product really is, and for those customers who expect flawless prints out of the box, there's nothing on your website to guide them in the right direction.

I applaud Solidoodle for bringing this product to market and I recognize that you're growing faster than you can keep up with and that resources are limited. I hope you understand that your website IS your company to most of your customers. Your website is has more reach than this site does. The fact that I had to come here to get some of my questions answered rather than finding those answers from Soliddodle's website is a failure of your company, in my opinion. (Never mind the fact that a third party had to create a user community for your products.)

The how-to section of your site, in my opinion, needs a "Start Here" item that leads users step-by-step through inspecting the printer as it comes out of the box to assure it's ready to print, then on to installing software (which is a convoluted jumble on your site), through first print, through advanced software options, through installing Repetier and configuring Slic3r and on to using a modeling tool such as Sketchup or Blender to produce models.

Your customers' first impression of your product will be a lasting one, and will be their impression of your company as a whole. That first impression comes from their first attempt at printing. I encourage you to put more effort into your website to help more of your customers have a successful first print. The outcome of that first print is going to set that customer's expectation of your company.

I know you guys get a lot of criticism here. Personally I think that some is warranted and some isn't, and generally what I've seen in my short time here is that your company representatives in the community are doing a great job. You could help yourselves by letting customers fix their own problems before coming to this community though. Writing good content is hard. I know. But it'll pay off in the long run.

I understand you're starting out and are "humble printer makers" that I've seen a story saying you did 3 mil last year which I'm happy about.  I'm not saying have Ian quit his day job, and I'm not sure he'd be interested if you offered it.  But I was thinking you would contract him to work on your behalf with a task based contract.

We wish we could get Ian! However, everyone has their own path in life. This is all I shall say. Remember, what our press release said was 3 million in revenue (not profits.) That's in NYC. Making hardware.

This is a sticky issue. Everyone seems to view the website differently. We have had a lot of vague responses saying our website "leaves a lot to be desired." Again, we have asked for specific criticisms many times, and have received very few. The website is due for a revamp, but the current design shall remain.

1)Load filament
2)Install software
3)Print!

My best guess as to the cause of the issue is that we are trying our very best to provide *simple* instructions. While some users take these are face value (not the sort that post on forums I imagine) there are many who are left asking lots of questions. In my mind this is what wiki is for, but again I (and it is I who can change the website - like right this very moment) am open to suggestions for where there missing information. Remember the question we are trying to answer is *how* not *why*, and we are trying to answer it is the simplest way possible.

Part of the issue here is that 3D printing feels *very* alien to people, and people come at our product with a nervous, skeptical point of view. Because our machine is so cheep, they expect there to be problems. I can't count the time I've had this conversation:
"Have you read the troubleshooting section of our website?"
"no"
"You need to adjust your belts"
"I'm not sure..."
"it will help"
"wow it helped"

For various reasons (some deserved i.e wait times) people are very skeptical of the advice we give, and this is part of the reason you see such an influx of folks going *directly* to the forums. We are working hard to be more transparent, but I wouldn't be surprised if people kept coming straight here for tech support for a while now, despite any changes to the website.

We thank Ian for his work. However, In my eyes the issue is somewhat akin to what antivirus manufacturers work with. Antivirus software strives to be as easy as possible to use, but because it is an alien sort of product, that is seldom used on daily basis it generates confusion. Of course a small army of help websites have cropped up to deal with this, and there is a large cross section of hobbyist antivirus people. Tips and tricks abound, and many computers have been saved by savvy forum moderators. These folks are a credit to humanity. However, I'm not sure this is an issue with the design of any particular product so much as the nature of tech, and tech support. It can be intimidating, and folks thrive on help.

Right now Ian's blog is doing almost as well as we are on google. Some folks think Ian's blog is our official website. Folks are also striving to have the hippest, most up to date Solidoodle information available. Ian is an amazing guy, and he's knows more about our product than any other customer I know of. We appreciate it!

However, we don't like the negative light our website is sometimes framed in. Again, give us a specific criticism and we'd be glad to change it. A big question in my eyes is "What information is missing?" - was there some tidbit if information you were just unable to find?

Now some might be referring to little tips and tricks like putting glass on your bed. I'm not sure that's necessarily appropriate for a first time through tutorial. Most users, and no solidoodle in our shop, has ever needed this. Remember, there are other venues for that sort of information than the main website.

The intention of the current formatting is that the website says "open the window" - picture of window - "change baud rate" - since you would change the baud rate after the window is open. Perhaps another number or a bullet point would make things more clear?

I'm actually not to concerned with this, as most of the current formatting will most likely be purged in the next big web update.

What is missing? Where can we be clear?

Let us know - we're always open to suggestions. Also guys, I just want to stress this - we are the friends of the community. We have at various times been framed in a bad light, and I just want to stress that we are not trying to withhold tech support, or information. We aren't trying to be stubborn about anything. We are just here to help any way we can.

I'll take a look through the website to see what I would suggest.  First thing that comes to mind which had me pulling my hair out was to move the baud rate text to just below the note for line 2, above the picture.  It got lost being under the picture and over line 3 so I couldn't connect until I found it here.    See screengrab below

One thing that will help is getting Repetier into the Software page.   A lot of first time user questions and problems are often solved by telling them to install Repetier, which they didn't know about until they came here.  Repetier definately makes a better first impression, and isn't subject to the pitfalls Mac users encounter trying to get the Python applications to work.

It is there in a very basic format. We'll be working on that very soon.

Solidoodlesupport, I have a suggestion.  Put Ian on the payroll and let him develop your official webpage for getting started, etc.  He has a great deal of it done already with his blog but if it were on your webpage and organized it would solve a lot of problems and hopefully a lot of repeat questions.

Hah! I'm sure Ian has a much nicer job than Solidoodle can afford him. We are a humble printer makers!
No, we are always working on the site, as well as wiki.solidoodle.com. To be honest, we have gone through the
"Let's make it easier to get started" dance a few times, and we are always open to specific suggestions.
Right now, the basic site is intended to be a very basic overview with the wiki serving as a supplement.

Keep in mind that there are many sorts of users. One of our goals with the site was to control the amount of information being thrown at the user from the start. While some of us thrive on gobs of technical information, others are easily overwhelmed.

We've asked for specific criticisms of the website in the past, so that we may amend confusing bits, but we haven't gotten much of a response in the past. We get the impression that most users don't read the entire website as it is.

Right now we are working on documentation (Videos for unclogging procedures) as well as writing the documentation / instructions for repetier host on the Solidoodle. Hope this helps!

Unboxing - this is basically just going through the components in the box and what they do, with maybe a few cautions on what not to do with the electronics and motors and extruder. Also probably leveling the platform.

Software - how to install and set up software and printer/filament/extruder profiles. Initially I'll include only repetier/slic3r instructions. This was the fastest way for me to get set up and am only assuming it will be easy for others. I have nothing against skeinforge and other options, but I haven't even set that up yet so I don't have the knowledge to write those instructions.

Printing - How to print an object, including info on temperatures, materials, tools like scrapers and vapor washes, glass bed modification. Information on fixing files to print will be sparse at first because I assume most people will want to go straight to thingiverse or something.

Maintenance - Lubrication, belt tightening, unclogging nozzles, filament storage, extruder disassembly/assembly.

Troubleshooting -  Calibrating feedrate and stepper motors and changing firmware. A "what does this noise mean" section maybe. Printer communication problems. How to improve the quality of my prints. Links to Ian's blog, soliforum, and other resources.

I'm only doing this in my free time, so I'm thinking it will probably take a couple months until it has all of this information. After that, I'll be updating it with additional information like skeinforge installation and whatever people are asking for.

I'm going to include some isometric drawings with some instructions, screenshots for software stuff, and videos for some maintenance items. If anyone has any of these things and wants to contribute them, let me know.

I feel your pain.

I came home to a 4 hour print that stopped after about an hour, because the filament snapped. I'd been using a piece of acrylic right on top of the steel frame, and the 90 degree turn was too much for the filament. It cooked in the nozzle for 3 hours until I got home, which surprisingly didn't clog immediately, but a hour or so later.

I swapped nozzles to clear the clog, but I did it with the Solidoodle power up, so I had the white LED lights. This ended up being a poor choice, as the +12v side of the hotend is always powered even if the extruder is off in software. I ended up shorting +12v into the 5v bus, which seems to have fried the ADCs on the 644 - they read very close to the same temperatures, 37deg on the hotend, 92 deg on the bed.

So, I've ordered a new Sanguinololu, with AVR chip, as I didn't want to roll the dice with other parts of the board being possibly damaged.

I just want it to work reliably!

Fixed this without a new AVR, by piping the A6 and A7 pins to the A0 and A1 pins, and making the requisite changes in pins.h, then updating firmware. I had (incorrectly) assumed that if two channels were reading incorrectly, that the whole port (all channels) were fried, since I (correctly) assumed they used a single ADC with a mux block. I did not realize that the failure could be in the mux block, only destroying two channels, instead of all of them. That led me to desolder the filtering capacitor on the extruder thermister, thinking (incorrectly) that it had failed. Finally, I realized the failure was in the mux block internal to the ATMega, and did this:

Fellas, you need to post links to these second source websites.

Who didn't?