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Topic: Filament curling at nozzle?

Hey guys,

I actually do not have a Filastruder, but I do have this filament machine from Instructables (link wouldn't post)

I don't know where else to ask a general question about this so I am coming to you guys....

My filament (PLA) keeps curling at the nozzle. So, the filament comes out about half an inch and curls right back into the nozzle making it useless. My best success with this PLA  has been at 160C. I tried ranges from 150-190 and 160 seems to work best. I tried using a fan or not a fan at the extruder for adding cooling but it didn't make a difference.

Any general ideas or tips for this issue? I tried searching and didn't come up with anything. 

Thanks in advance
Mike

2 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-16 00:27:12)

Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

You can't post links until you have certain amount of posts I think.
Do you mean this? http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-y … ry-Filame/

Nozzle doesn't seem much different from Filastruder.
I'm no expert but this is what I think is happening. What you describe seems like a problem which would happen if the cooling fan wasn't on or wasn't positioned properly. You want to cool the plastic which is coming out to prevent it from deforming (curling), if you don't then it will deform (curl) more than is needed because it will stay hotter longer.

Also, make sure there isn't any leftover plastic on the nozzle surface, it can act as a glue sometimes for the new plastic coming out.

This is just assumptions from my own experience, maybe it's something else.

EDIT: BTW is that a car window wiper motor? The extrusion is pretty fast.

Solidoodle 4

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

Is that after you have extruded a foot or so of filament?  It needs to be pulled away from the nozzle by hand until there is enough weight hanging from the nozzle to pull the filament straight.

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

Thanks for the reply guys!

Every couple of inches or so the filament will just curl back into the nozzle. Even after I have extruded a decent amount and it is laying on the ground.

I was actually one step ahead of you redbarret, I used a stainless brush trip on a dremel to clean the outside of the nozzle because I thought it was that too. And I tried to all different settings with the fan... I had the fan on the left, right, top bottom... didn't make a difference. I am wondering if maybe my thrust bearing isn't catching the auger and all the force is being put onto the motor. Maybe the fluctuation and load on the motor variances are causing a fluctuation in force inside the pipe and causing a curl. I don't know for sure... something to look into tonight.

And yes, it is a windshield wiper motor! The thing works great. Slow or fast, doesn't matter, and the thing has a ton of torque for this application. Scored it on eBay for 15 shipped. It is off a 99 Mercury Cougar.

5 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-16 13:33:57)

Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

I knew the motor had a familiar shape.

trdcelica wrote:

Every couple of inches or so the filament will just curl back into the nozzle, it doesn't just move down after coming out of the nozzle, right? Even after I have extruded a decent amount and it is laying on the ground.

Just to be sure, you have something the filament is sliding on after it comes out of the nozzle a little, it doesn't just go down, right?
http://i.imgur.com/JnM5QaN.png

Did you contact the maker via pm or make a post in instructables.com about this issue?

BTW, 1 kg of filament in 1 hour? Thats crazy. Have you measured how consistent the diameter of the extruded filament is?

Solidoodle 4

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

redbarret wrote:

Do you mean this? http://www.instructables.com/id/Build-y … ry-Filame/

Nozzle doesn't seem much different from Filastruder.

That nozzle is different from the Filastruder's. It has an L/D ratio of about 1, whereas the Filastruder has an L/D ratio of about 15. In designing the Filastruder nozzle, I sacrificed speed in order to significantly improve filament quality.

This is likely leading to unstable viscoelastic flow, causing the curling that was mentioned.

7 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-16 17:35:34)

Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

Okay, sorry.

However, I don't see said unstable flow and curling in the photos and videos posted in that website.

Solidoodle 4

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

Depends on the material being used. He talked mostly about using PC-ABS, which is very different from PLA.

9 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-16 20:23:44)

Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

True.
But he did mention PLA.

Different materials need different extrusion settings.

For pure ABS a temperatur of 190°C is about right.

PLA requires less heat and ABS/PC blend needs higher temperatures like 260-270°C.

So I wouldn't be surprised if he has tried PLA. I think it would be best to ask the guy.

In your comment you didn't specify PLA when talking about your hotend design being better at producing filament with consistent diameter.

I've seen curling happening on my Filastruder because of the issues I mentioned, I think it's early to jump to the conclusion that this kind of setup won't produce decent quality PLA filament even if your calculations show otherwise.
It can be something trivial.

There are a number of home extruders today for sale producing filament faster and they don't seem to have a very poor output quality.

Solidoodle 4

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

I haven't designed a hotend, I'm not sure what you mean by that. I designed a nozzle for a filament extruder.

It is curling back onto the nozzle even after extruding several feet into the ground? I'd like to see photos/video because that's something I've never seen on a Filastruder.

I've tried high L/D nozzles and low L/D nozzles. The latter had measurably worse filament quality - like double the diameter variation.

But hey - if you think my thousands of hours of experimenting and testing produced incorrect results, try it for yourself! Be sure to share your findings...

11 (edited by redbarret 2014-12-19 05:29:00)

Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

elmoret wrote:

I haven't designed a hotend, I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I meant to say nozzle. Like in my previous posts...

elmoret wrote:

But hey - if you think my thousands of hours of experimenting and testing produced incorrect results, try it for yourself! Be sure to share your findings...

No, I don't think that.
But it's a fact that there are other extruders out there like this one running faster without the inconsistency issue you mentioned.

EDIT: "citation": Filabot, Noztek... and apparently also this wink

Solidoodle 4

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

redbarret wrote:

But it's a fact that there are other extruders out there like this one running faster without the inconsistency issue you mentioned.

Citation needed.

I am VERY conservative with my claims.

1.) Some folks report extrusion speeds 4-5x faster than I list on my website- users have reported things like 1kg in 3 hours, for example. Different polymers extrude at different speeds too - I've seen PLA extrude up to 10 times faster than ABS, for instance, but I am not going to list the best possible output speed as a specification.

2.) I list +/-0.05mm diameter variance on the website. Most users report +/-0.02mm, and some have reported +/-0.00mm filament variance. Again, very conservative claims, and dozens examples of independent verification.

I've yet to find a third party verification of any of the other extruders speed or filament variance... so please don't say things are "fact" that simply are not.

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

Holy pi**ing contest this turned into Batman. Anyway, issue was a mis-alignment of the trust bearing. Appreciate all advice.

Anyway, getting about 100g of useable filament every 10 minutes or so within .05mm spec. That is with the motor on medium low. That is PLA at 170C at 1.75mm.

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Re: Filament curling at nozzle?

I knew it was likely something trivial. smile
Glad you managed to figure it out

Solidoodle 4