1 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-11 23:49:01)

Topic: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Looks like I may be the first one here to have purchased one of these. It was $540 shipped from eBay. Ordered from USA seller in CA (one eBay described as the CTC company) and received it in about 5 days.

This is a Flashforge Creator/Replicator 2 clone with dual extruders.

When it arrived, the packaging was top notch. Printer came completely assembled with the exception of the print heads which only required 2 screws to assemble. This printer uses the mightyboard (Makerbot) controller and runs on the Replicator 2 firmware. This means you need to use the ReplicatorG software to drive it as the gcode format is x3g and commands are sent in a compressed binary (faster printing, bidirectional, and has error checking) instead of plain text.

I was worried about the lasercut plywood chassis but so far it seems quite sturdy.

After installing python and ReplicatorG, I was up and printing within a half hour of unboxing. Before installing the printhead, I did notice that the hotends were not level with each other, so I had to adjust those. I just moved the Z axis all the way to the top, loosened the nozzles and let them both drop on the bed, then tightened them both up. Simple to do, but required taking the fans and heatsinks off.

The extruder itself is pretty nice. It is a molded plastic affair that contains the filament through the entire extruder path. The extruder gear looks extremely sharp and the pressure from the roller bearing looks tight enough to cause trouble with some materials like Ninjaflex. There are alternative extruder bodies on thingaverse for the Flashforge which will work.

http://i.imgur.com/Q8Tp3vs.jpg?1

My first print was parts for the very first upgrade recommended which are pillow block bearings for the Y axis transmission rollers. In the this model, there is one in the front and back, so the upgrade requires 4 pillow blocks and 4 bearings.

I was impressed with the quality right out of the box. I printed these before doing any calibrating or even leveling of the bed and they came out very good. Circles were perfect and dimensions were correct.

http://i.imgur.com/1E3RCrE.jpg?1

Build area is 220x150x150, though that is the bed. It appears there is quite a bit more mechanical movement for that.

Comes with a heated bed which heats up pretty quickly and has an LED to indicate when it is heating.

Control panel and LCD are nice touches. Simple and useful menus as well as machine status info. Includes a SD socket for printing offline as well. The printer came with a 4GB card to get started.

The hot-ends are non-standard. They are just tubes going down to the heater block. All metal. They are mounted into a large aluminum block which I'm sure will keep the filament nice and cool and prevent clogging.

http://i.imgur.com/Q8Tp3vs.jpg

The body of the printer is open and I have already experienced issues with warping while printing ABS parts. I am heading to home depot to pick up some some materials (just some rigid insulation) to make temporary sides and a door for it until I can fashion together something more permanent or buy a full kit from criticalmods.com

After using it for a few hours last night to print more upgrade parts (filament guides) I found that it would occasionally generate a heating failure in the right extruder. I disassembled the hotend this morning to see if I could figure it out and noticed that the screw holding in the thermistor was loose and the metal bracket was oxidized. I sanded it until it was bright and shiny, applied some thermal paste, and bolted it back together tightly. Wrapped the whole thing in kapton tape as well. We shall see if this fixes the problem. I am sure the oxidation was the problem; it was pretty thick.

I also upgraded the firmware from the ReplicatorG interface to version 7.5. 7.2 was loaded by default. 7.5 added a couple of features and fixed some reported heating issues (not mine, apparently - I still had a heating failure after upgrading the firmware.)

The mightyboard is a 24V board. So, installed is a 24V 14A power supply. It might benefit from an upgrade to a 20A supply at some point. Also, the stepper drivers are removable (I noticed one was loose from shipping!) so upgrading to DRV8825s for 1/32 micro-stepping may be possible. I ordered a set of 5, so we shall see.

All mechanical parts are either metal or injection molded parts. No 3D printed parts were found in this. Each axis uses regular  and linear bearings all around. The Z axis lead screw is an acme threaded rod with a flex coupler.

Overall good mechanical structure. Two things I am concerned about is the Y axis end stop which is mounted with just standoffs and the Y axis stepper which is also mounted with standoffs. I will likely design some more solid brackets for these.

Wire management looks very good. Nothing dangling to get caught up while printing.

So far, my upgrades have only been a filament guide (with clips), Teflon tubing, and a fan guard to go across the extruder fans. I am waiting on my bearings to arrive to install the pillow blocks. As noted from other reviews I had read, the transmission rollers flex quite a bit (they are quite thin) so this will help stabilize the bars. Really a necessary upgrade. I ordered a couple press-on connectors to install in the extruder body to securely hold the teflon tubing as well.


I really didn't like the ReplicatorG. I got around that by finally purchasing a software I had been looking at for a while now (Simplify3D) which allows multi-part placement like Repetier as well as interactive support features. I just bought that this morning, so I haven't used it enough to give it much of a review. But it was up and printing right away with no issues.

I'll include more pictures and information later. Finding information on this printer to decide whether to buy one or not was not easy. Pretty much all I could find were some youtube videos of a couple of owners (which were helpful.) I was a bit hesitant because it was so cheap for a dual extruder set up. But so far, I am pleased. Working on it appears to be very simple.

2 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-08 20:41:19)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Made some "quick and dirty" sides for the CTC. Instead of the rigid foam, I found a windshield sun blocker in the clearance bin for $2.50 which consists of a mylar front and back and a bubblewrap interior. I also grabbed a roll of thin weather stripping for $2.50

I cut it 1 inch bigger than all side openings, installed weather stripping all around and used painters tape to hold it in place being sure to compress the weather stripping a little to seal it. I used painters tape so it can be easily removed later when I make something more professional.

I made one for each side and a door for the front.

http://i.imgur.com/1AYRlMu.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/vWW36pm.jpg

Should work fine for now.

I should have grabbed a plastic tote big enough to fit over the top.

3 (edited by n2ri 2014-11-08 21:10:51)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

ok, looks like a makerbot clone. a few Qs;

are there lights inside to watch print?

how thick is plywood?

what size nozzles and are they swappable?

is there a tension spring/adjustment on extruder feed gears?

how many cooling fans?

the power supply is 14amps input/primary side? or secondary which is usually listed in watts? because most 115v home outlets only carry 15amp loads even if breaker is 20 amp.

looks like good price for what you get mostly. got any pics of fine detail prints?

thanks for sharing this, looks promising!

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

4

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

also whats the max extruder temp setting? that will tell if it can do materials other than only PLA and ABS

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

5 (edited by Tin Falcon 2014-11-09 22:41:25)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

If you upgrade to sailfish firmware you can run RH. this may help you.
http://www.3duniverse.org/3D%20Universe … Manual.pdf
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

6 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-09 02:20:04)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

n2ri wrote:

ok, looks like a makerbot clone. a few Qs;

are there lights inside to watch print?

how thick is plywood?

what size nozzles and are they swappable?

is there a tension spring/adjustment on extruder feed gears?

how many cooling fans?

the power supply is 14amps input/primary side? or secondary which is usually listed in watts? because most 115v home outlets only carry 15amp loads even if breaker is 20 amp.

looks like good price for what you get mostly. got any pics of fine detail prints?

thanks for sharing this, looks promising!


1. Are there lights inside to watch print?

No. No lights inside except the green on the limit switches and the led on the heated bed. The board does have an output for an RGB LED strip, though. And it can be controlled by ReplicatorG

2. How thick is plywood?

6mm (1/4")

3. What size nozzles and are they swappable?

It says .4mm nozzle installed (but it looks smaller to me.) Looks like a standard nozzle. I'm sure it can be switched.

4. Is there a tension spring/adjustment on extruder feed gears?

No adjustment. The extruder is a block with an ultra sharp gear and a fixed bearing. You have to select a menu to feed and remove filament. On thingaverse there are versions you can print with spring quick release style. Advise it when using ninjaflex or experimental filaments. Pretty simple to swap them when needed or even install one extruder as spring lever and one as normal. Which is probably what I will do. Left extruder will mostyl be used for flex filament or PVA/HIPS dissolvable filament.

5. How many cooling fans?

1 on each extruder, 1 for the stepper drivers, and 1 in the power supply.

6. the power supply is 14amps input/primary side? or secondary which is usually listed in watts? because most 115v home outlets only carry 15amp loads even if breaker is 20 amp.

14A on 24V secondary side, of course. 330W. These types of power supplies are usually listed by max amp ratings on the DC output side, not watts. Simple math to convert.

7. Looks like good price for what you get mostly. got any pics of fine detail prints?

Nothing yet. I haven't printed anything in superfine detail yet. I have been only printing upgrade parts on it so far at 2.7mm layer height. I haven't even calibrated anything yet (no nice auto-PID tuner built in!)

I also don't have a macro lens on my iphone, so not sure I can capture the fine detail enough for a photo. It came with two prints that were printed on the printer before shipping it (extruder still had some red in it.) They are little squirrels and the detail looks really good. I doubt they were printed at the .1mm it says it can achieve. Looks more like 2.7mm

http://i.imgur.com/Pqo5J2T.jpg
Not a great picture.

8. Also whats the max extruder temp setting? that will tell if it can do materials other than only PLA and ABS

It claims 260 max. Not sure the real limit or if firmware would limit it even with upgraded thermistor and heaters. I think 260 would print most materials, though. There is no weird offset like on the Solidoodle.

What creates the limitations for hot-end temp? In most, it is the teflon inside and thermistor, right?

7

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Tin Falcon wrote:

If you upgrade to saltfish firmware you can run RH. this may help you.
http://www.3duniverse.org/3D%20Universe … Manual.pdf
Tin


Nice. I will need to save that for a rainy day.

Simplify3D cost $140, so I had better get some use out of it! lol

So far I really like it and it has pretty much all the features of RH, plus some. I am not convinced it is really worth $140 yet, though. I imagine its worth will shine once I start actually messing with dual extrusion and interactive supports which supposedly is its forte.

8

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Been monitoring my chamber temperature while I printed a 1.5 hour job. Even with the sides and the door, it is only 32C inside. While a lid may help a little, I am going to need to finish up my chamber heater mod. I am getting plenty of warping on my ABS prints even with rafts (I hate rafts!)

9 (edited by Tin Falcon 2014-11-09 22:42:19)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Simplify3D cost $140, so I had better get some use out of it! lol

Well if is any cancellation  on page 12 of the manual  there is a head to head comparison of the various slicer software.
Simplify 3D outperforms the others in most categories. but it will not handle two colors with two stl files. the others will.
Tin

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

10 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-10 11:04:44)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

FWIW if anyone comes looking for it, I created a clip to adjust the z-stop for this printer to support adding a glass bed. Before, it required clamping the bed down almost completely to the bottom with very little room for leveling the bed.

It was a quick hack and provides 2-4mm adjustment in three steps. I will be throwing together an actual adjustable end stop that will also make the endstop mount more sturdy. Making all the endstop mounts more sturdy on this. One heavy slam, and I can see them breaking off!

Anyway, here it is. It is design to slide onto the back plywood brace of the Z axis. You can insert one 3mm screw and nut in the slot if you would like, but it actually clips on pretty firmly. You just slide the adjuster so that the proper step lines up with the switch.

Remember to place it with the highest step to the left, otherwise the higher steps will interfere and possibly even damage the Z-stop. The step you want should rest right on the switch lever end.

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11 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-11 13:01:23)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Some new stuff:

1. This printer uses K-type thermocouples with a max temp of 700 degrees C. So this won't be a limitation to working with alternative materials. That leaves the heater cartridges. They appear to be the 24V 40W variety. Given they are at 24V, they will draw half the current of the 12V variety. The FETs on the mightyboard are capable of 100A at 30V according to the datasheets (seriously?) So, I think the limitation of working at higher temps to print nylon and such is going to be the power supply and whether or not the 40MM fans can keep the tops of the hotends cool enough. I don't expect that to be an issue. The hot-ends are mounted to a large aluminum block that feels cold to the touch even after hours of printing.

Next time I have them out, I will check to see if they have teflon in them. I *think* they looked like all metal when I had them out last time to adjust them.

2. I spent a great deal of time designing a bridging fan bracket to fit onto a nice undercarriage duct that I found for the Flashforge. On this printer, the fans are spaced apart about 4mm more than the flashforge. So the included bracket doesn't work. I soldered on longer wires to the fan and ran them through the wire bundle only to find that the mightyboard is missing the FET for this output. Off to mouser to order a PSMN7R0-30YL FET to install. It appears all the other circuitry is there.

Seems a waste to use such a powerful FET for a 100mA fan. That could be really useful for a chamber heater output! But there is no other thermistor input. There are however 3 analog channels left over on the ATMega1280 available on an expansion header.

Of course, this would require some modified firmware to control the heater. This is also not something supported in the programs, either. Since this printer does have a display and keypad, it could be possibly to just control it from there. I guess there really wouldn't be any reason to control it from Gcode. Just set the target temp, turn it on/off and let it do its thing.

Finally, you would need to use a different pin and some extra circuitry to run the fan. Just a little transistor would be needed to run it.

For now, I will just be adding the FET and running my fan from it.

3. The RGB LED circuitry is also not present on the board. I had ordered a 4" strip of RGB LEDs which I had planned to mount to the back plate of the Z-axis pointing down onto the build plate and wiring this up. I guess I hadn't looked closely enough at the mightyboard to notice the parts were missing. Oh well, added those parts to my mouser order as well. $16 with shipping netted all the parts plus a few spares of each.

12

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Oops. Forgot to add. I received the DRV8825 stepper driver boards. I found that the mightyboard modules are wired up in reverse and that the Vref pots are digital pots under control of the firmware. To upgrade this to 1/32 stepping would require modifications to both the modules and the board.

The modules are a mirror image, so the headers *could be flipped, but then the heatsink would be under the board and not able to get air from the fan across it.Probably the easiest solution would be an adapter board to swap the pins and some modifications to the module to either use the vref signal or ignore it and use the pots instead.

I searched for modules already compatible with the mightyboard and came up empty. Shocking actually. There must be something out there.

13

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Some updates:

1. Those temporary sides are still on there. They seem to be working well. My problem with slight warping was due to the bed temperature not even being close to what was reported. It was set for 110, but actual measured temp was 54-60 degrees using a kitchen thermometer. I tested the accuracy at the hotends and the measured temp matched the reported temp. Also measured correct temp in a glass of ice. So, I ended up adjusting the bed temp up until it actually measured 110 degrees. Setting was 140 degrees. I haven't figured out yet why this is off or how to fix it. But no trouble running it with the 140C setting. While I had the bed out looking for a problem, I decided to put some fiberglass tape under the bed to help keep the heat in. Seems to have helped. I am getting surface temps on the glass of 110C now. BTW, the bed heats up in less than 2 minutes.

2. I found a perfect sized storage tote to fit on the top. It was the exact dimensions and even had matching angled corners. I cut a slot in the back of it for the wire bundle and filament to go through and lined the edge with more of the weather stripping. I took off the front door, but with all these changes I haven't had any warping issues since.

3. My prints look awesome. But the dimensions were off! A 50mm part printed out at 44mm. So off to change the steps/mm. But, Simplify3D just ignored my settings. I even went crazy and put in 200 steps/mm for X and Y and still nothing changed.

After ALOT of struggling and research I finally figured out how to fix it. My post is in the Simplify3D forum. The result was a 50mmx50mmx2mm calibration part coming out exact after shrinkage (I allowed the part to cool before taken my measurements.)

4. I did some more research on the stepper modules. The DRV8825 is capable of much more current than the A4988s, so many have suggested they don't need the heatsinks. That means flipping the pins over will not be much of a problem and I found several examples where people had done this on their printers. Still, I might design some ducting that directs the fan under the headers. So the next problem to solve for this is to figure out exactly how to mod the modules for the digital pot. I know what I need to do, but need to follow the traces on the boards to make sure I do it right.


5. Today I noticed a problem with tugging the filament off the spool causing some issues in my prints. That is next on my list of things to solve. I have the teflon tubing and quick connects. I printed out the back filament guide. Now I need to print a different top piece for the extruders that I can screw the quick connects into. The wood holes are too big.

Overall, I am really happy with this printer. I am surprised. I honestly did not expect too much for what I paid. But it is running very well. I have been able to already print several things I could not get to print on the SD4. I have also managed to run a print that took 8 hours to complete and it actually succeeded. This was something I didn't even dare to try on the SD4 because 7/10 times I couldn't print anything successfully. Several times I walked away only to come back to a glob of molten plastic on the hotends and a spaghetti mess all over the place. And the layers never adhered well. The pieces would just bust off during a print. The parts printed on this printer are solid and strong. No layer problems at all.

14 (edited by n2ri 2014-11-17 09:08:13)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

cool. only part cooling fan gcode operated needs to be included in such a printer I think.
also dont know how that board is but when I worked in building automation our thermistor/room stats for HVAC had tiny pots to calibrate temps with min-max of -3f to+220f and we had to check them with meters to see if thermistor was bad of just needed tiny adjustment. and if room temps exceeded 120f it triggered fire alarms and shut down HVAC. dont know if thermocouples would have this. just letting you know how some are. had a company that sold those systems that had errors programed in mast board and it ran 1 HVAC units heta for 4 hours strait till 120 room temp killed all including outside lights and other items at 1AM thanksgiving morn at a 24hr truck stop LOL. I warned em it was bad but they ignored me so they had to fly across the US to fix it same day.

Solidoodle 2 with Deluxe kit cover & glass bed with heater. and 2nd board SD2 used not 3rd and alum platform not installed yet still wood. also need cooling fan installed to board. use Repetier Host couple vers. Slic3r also have all free ware STL programs

15 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-17 15:50:31)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

n2ri wrote:

cool. only part cooling fan gcode operated needs to be included in such a printer I think.
also dont know how that board is but when I worked in building automation our thermistor/room stats for HVAC had tiny pots to calibrate temps with min-max of -3f to+220f and we had to check them with meters to see if thermistor was bad of just needed tiny adjustment. and if room temps exceeded 120f it triggered fire alarms and shut down HVAC. dont know if thermocouples would have this. just letting you know how some are. had a company that sold those systems that had errors programed in mast board and it ran 1 HVAC units heta for 4 hours strait till 120 room temp killed all including outside lights and other items at 1AM thanksgiving morn at a 24hr truck stop LOL. I warned em it was bad but they ignored me so they had to fly across the US to fix it same day.


No pot on the board. It is your typical 100K thermistor which is soldered in the middle of the heatbed on the bottom side. It could be a bad matching 100K resistor or tolerance issue. This resistor is on the heated bed, too. That doesn't seem like a great idea since ALL resistors are essentially thermistors so the resistance would change with temperature. I'll take a look next time I am working in there.

I hope it isn't something as silly as using the same translation code for the thermistors as the thermocouples in the firmware. I would imagine something like that would have been caught by now, though. This is just standard Makerbot firmware used in many printers.

Side note: 128 microstepping driver just released. How insane is that? http://www.reprapdiscount.com/electroni … tible.html

Expensive, though. $175 for all 5 axis. lol

16 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-17 16:16:28)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

n2ri wrote:

cool. only part cooling fan gcode operated needs to be included in such a printer I think.

Gcode control of the cooling fan is included in the firmware and on the board. It was only missing the FET to control this output. Not a difficult or expensive part to add. It is also supported in Simplify3D, but in a little more untraditional way due to how Simplify3D works. You have to set it for the layers you want it to come on and turn off. I haven't seen anything which intelligently controls the fan only during bridging yet.

A note about Simplify3D is that you can adjust all sorts of settings at each layer level to completely customize your print. It can look a little overwhelming with all the features.

Another thing that is nice is that all of the fans, including the extruder fans are under firmware control. They only run when necessary and at the speed necessary. This keeps the machine really quiet while printing and almost completely silent when not printing.

17 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-17 16:20:58)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

One thing you do not want to do is blow your mightyboard. $180 for a replacement! Hence the reason I am going slow on any mods that will be done to it.

18

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Awesome.  Nice info.  I bought one in March when they were still $750 on Ebay. I haven't dug into mine much.  It does have the same quirks the original Replicator had.  The endstop cable for the x will fail very quickly.  I undid the cables that bunch up in that corner and let them hang.  looks bad but that cable hasn't failed since.  Your thermocouples will go bad after 100-200 hours.  I hit up CTC for new ones for about 6 months then they stopped answering my emails.  I buy new ones off of Wanhaousa.com. They seem to work.  Also your thermal barriers will break down after about 600 hours.  I keep meaning to find a roll of tubing somewhere but then get lazy and buy them from Wanhao.  I checked yesterday.  Since March I have over 800 hours on mine, mostly stock, and it builds as good as it did out of the box.

19 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-18 13:20:21)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

curlrup wrote:

Awesome.  Nice info.  I bought one in March when they were still $750 on Ebay. I haven't dug into mine much.  It does have the same quirks the original Replicator had.  The endstop cable for the x will fail very quickly.  I undid the cables that bunch up in that corner and let them hang.  looks bad but that cable hasn't failed since.  Your thermocouples will go bad after 100-200 hours.  I hit up CTC for new ones for about 6 months then they stopped answering my emails.  I buy new ones off of Wanhaousa.com. They seem to work.  Also your thermal barriers will break down after about 600 hours.  I keep meaning to find a roll of tubing somewhere but then get lazy and buy them from Wanhao.  I checked yesterday.  Since March I have over 800 hours on mine, mostly stock, and it builds as good as it did out of the box.


Good info. A few questions:

1. What failed about the endstop cable? Mine doesn't seem to have any strain on it. The mounts for the end stop are just two standoffs, so I will be bulking that up before something goes wrong and they gent bent. But the cables themselves don't seem to have any strain on them. Maybe they fixed that.

2. Thermiocouples broke down? How so? When I first started using mine, I was getting heating errors right away. When I removed the thermocouple on the right extruder I found the metal was heavily oxidized. I just sanded it shiny again and haven't had a problem since. If you notice black on the metal, it's just oxidization likely caused by a joint of dissimilar metals. It should be shiny. I put thermal paste in between which will reduce oxidization.

3. When you say thermal barrier, you mean the teflon inside the hotends? I'll have to look again, but I didn't notice any in mine. Hopefully before that happens, I will come up with a way to upgrade the extruders. Not at all unhappy with them right now, but I think a J mount will open up options for repair/upgrade. I have my eyes on those hexagon hot-ends from reprapdiscount.

Like you, I am also pretty happy with this purchase. I don't really have a ton of mods planned for it as it runs well as-is. In fact, I am not 100% committed that I will do some of the mods I mentioned above. With the SD4, I was not afraid to mod it because it wasn't working well anyway.


It may be too early to tell, but I have a feeling that it will become my workhorse for other printer upgrades, new builds, and experimentation.

At less than I could even purchase all the parts separately, I may pick up another one at some point to experiment with such as making the build area bigger.

20

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

Retroplayer wrote:
curlrup wrote:

Awesome.  Nice info.  I bought one in March when they were still $750 on Ebay. I haven't dug into mine much.  It does have the same quirks the original Replicator had.  The endstop cable for the x will fail very quickly.  I undid the cables that bunch up in that corner and let them hang.  looks bad but that cable hasn't failed since.  Your thermocouples will go bad after 100-200 hours.  I hit up CTC for new ones for about 6 months then they stopped answering my emails.  I buy new ones off of Wanhaousa.com. They seem to work.  Also your thermal barriers will break down after about 600 hours.  I keep meaning to find a roll of tubing somewhere but then get lazy and buy them from Wanhao.  I checked yesterday.  Since March I have over 800 hours on mine, mostly stock, and it builds as good as it did out of the box.


Good info. A few questions:

1. What failed about the endstop cable? Mine doesn't seem to have any strain on it. The mounts for the end stop are just two standoffs, so I will be bulking that up before something goes wrong and they gent bent. But the cables themselves don't seem to have any strain on them. Maybe they fixed that.

2. Thermiocouples broke down? How so? When I first started using mine, I was getting heating errors right away. When I removed the thermocouple on the right extruder I found the metal was heavily oxidized. I just sanded it shiny again and haven't had a problem since. If you notice black on the metal, it's just oxidization likely caused by a joint of dissimilar metals. It should be shiny. I put thermal paste in between which will reduce oxidization.

3. When you say thermal barrier, you mean the teflon inside the hotends? I'll have to look again, but I didn't notice any in mine. Hopefully before that happens, I will come up with a way to upgrade the extruders. Not at all unhappy with them right now, but I think a J mount will open up options for repair/upgrade. I have my eyes on those hexagon hot-ends from reprapdiscount.

Like you, I am also pretty happy with this purchase. I don't really have a ton of mods planned for it as it runs well as-is. In fact, I am not 100% committed that I will do some of the mods I mentioned above. With the SD4, I was not afraid to mod it because it wasn't working well anyway.


It may be too early to tell, but I have a feeling that it will become my workhorse for other printer upgrades, new builds, and experimentation.

At less than I could even purchase all the parts separately, I may pick up another one at some point to experiment with such as making the build area bigger.


The endstop cable had a short in it from the flex.  They should have sent a spare with the machine for that reason.

The thermocouples were throwing error codes.  However I saved the old ones so I just might clean them up.  Never occured to me that the oxidation might be an issue.

Yes the thermal barriers are the teflon tubes in the barrels.  I like the machine.  It is a cheap work horse for me.

21

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

This is a great review.  I am having the warping issues you describe on all of my ABS prints.  I have tried Kapton tape, painters tape, elmers glue sticks, and finally ABS juice to help get the part to stick to the bed.  I have even paused the build and used acetone to remelt the part and stick it back to the bed.  What a PITA!  I didn't have near these issues when I was printing with PLA.  I may just go back to the PLA.  I am going to try to get the critical mods lexan sides.  Do you have your design for the cabinet heater perfected yet?  I am VERY interested in that.

22 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-21 01:51:44)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

jodydewey1968 wrote:

This is a great review.  I am having the warping issues you describe on all of my ABS prints.  I have tried Kapton tape, painters tape, elmers glue sticks, and finally ABS juice to help get the part to stick to the bed.  I have even paused the build and used acetone to remelt the part and stick it back to the bed.  What a PITA!  I didn't have near these issues when I was printing with PLA.  I may just go back to the PLA.  I am going to try to get the critical mods lexan sides.  Do you have your design for the cabinet heater perfected yet?  I am VERY interested in that.


I don't yet. Been slammed at work lately. I have the parts, just have to get the time to assemble everything and write the code for my controller. You can buy digital temp controllers off eBay instead of making something custom, but I didn't really like the features and there were a few things I also wanted to include in it. Things such as maybe having a permanent independent monitor of temps (extruders, heated bed) to compare with reported temps. And I have been playing with an idea of attaching optical encoders to the axis to get actual distance traveled for use in calibrating. Anyway, for me, a custom controller means I have something to experiment with.

Note up above where I talked about the bed temperature not being correct. Once I discovered that and fixed it by measuring with a kitchen thermometer, I have not had any warping issues. And I only use hairspray on glass to stick the prints.

I did modify my kitchen thermometer by taking the thermistor out of that metal tube. I then just push it between the heated bed and my glass bed (I have a 1mm thermal conductive pad in between.) But I have also kapton taped the thermistor to the glass. This allows you to get a reading for the actual glass surface temperature. Keep in mind that it will take some time for the entire thermal mass to stabilize, so don't keep cranking up the heat right away.

23

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

I am thinking that this LASKO personal heater would be perfect to warm the compartment for dirt cheap.  I found it at Walmart for 16 bucks

Lasko-Electric-My-Heat-Personal-Heater-100

My thought is it is a perfect size to fit on the right side of the CTC and it could easily be turned on before the build.  With the insulated panels on the other side plus the cover over the top and front it should maintain temp rather well.

24 (edited by Retroplayer 2014-11-22 00:52:50)

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

jodydewey1968 wrote:

I am thinking that this LASKO personal heater would be perfect to warm the compartment for dirt cheap.  I found it at Walmart for 16 bucks

Lasko-Electric-My-Heat-Personal-Heater-100

My thought is it is a perfect size to fit on the right side of the CTC and it could easily be turned on before the build.  With the insulated panels on the other side plus the cover over the top and front it should maintain temp rather well.


Interesting. Since you have one, let me know how it works. Be careful, though. The idea of a chamber heater is to generate a lot of heat and indirectly blow it into the chamber, while monitoring and controlling the temperature like a convection oven.
A space heater is designed to heat a somewhat large area, so therefore it will dump out a lot of heat. Putting this on the side would essentially blow that heat directly on the main build area, including filament, belts, ABS parts, and wiring. This will also result in spot heating where certain parts will get hotter than the air. Not saying for positive it will be a problem, but I would measure how hot that air can get right in front of the output.

Also, use a kitchen thermometer to monitor the internal temperature of the chamber so you know when to shut it off. The metal probe part will make it somewhat inaccurate for this use. Inside is just a thermistor diode. You should remove the metal probe, so the diode is exposed to free air.

And my cover came from Walmart, and it was a perfect fit. It is a Sterilite 4gal modular stacker tote. It is literally a perfect fit for the top. I just sliced an opening in the side where the cables and filament come in. You could make a flap of material to cover that if you wanted, but I haven't noticed any problem.

Again, take a look at your real bed temps. I suspect that you won't need a chamber heater with this printer with a top and some sides if your bed temps are actually 100-110C.

25

Re: CTC Creator Dual 3D Printer - Initial Review

jodydewey1968 wrote:

This is a great review.  I am having the warping issues you describe on all of my ABS prints.  I have tried Kapton tape, painters tape, elmers glue sticks, and finally ABS juice to help get the part to stick to the bed.  I have even paused the build and used acetone to remelt the part and stick it back to the bed.  What a PITA!  I didn't have near these issues when I was printing with PLA.  I may just go back to the PLA.  I am going to try to get the critical mods lexan sides.  Do you have your design for the cabinet heater perfected yet?  I am VERY interested in that.


ABS will usually end up warped based on how long it sits on the bed for. If you are doing a quick print of 1/2 hour or so, you should be able to complete it with little to no warping. In addition, the lifting of the print off the bed (warping in that regard) can be countered the absolute best by using "Cubestick" by cubify. The solution will give you the best chance to complete an ABS print without it lifting off the bed. I know as I have tried EVERYTHING! I mean it too! I even ordered in chemicals and mixed solutions to see if I could beat what the Cubestick can do since at one time they were charging 32 dollars for a couple ounces of it! Now it's back to 6 or 7 a bottle and you will get 100 prints out of a bottle easily. I use Cubestick on PLA, Nylon, ABS, T-Glasse, and more. The only thing I have not had a lot of luck with is the print separating into layers as it's printing with ABS. Like slits that you can put the edge of a playing card into on surfaces such as printing Skulls, Boxes, and more. The separation can sometimes be corrected afterwards by using superglue to put in there.

Recently though I came up with a brilliant idea to save a lot of these prints from the trash. I bought a 3d Pen (ones you can doodle with the filament) then I load the same color as the thing I want to repair. I then apply the hot filament to the slits and separations of the prints after they are done and let it cool off. Then I sand it down slightly and you are golden! You can then paint it or so whatever you normally do with good prints and that saves time and money on filament. A cheap doodle pen is about 60 bucks and its the best 60 I ever spent to take care of this ABS problem.

I too use the CTC dual extruder 3d printer. Their customer service sucks totally! Almost non-existent! They will promise you something, not deliver, and never write you back or answer emails. However the printers are sold delivered on ebay right now for $540! I have over 1000 hours on mine and I need to get some parts to replace things before they break. Aside from that, it's a great printer for the money!