51 (edited by RTRyder 2014-02-07 16:39:49)

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

I found the stock rods felt like the linear bearings were rolling on sandpaper. Same bearings roll nice and smooth on stainless 8MM rod, only downside I can see is eventually the bearings can carve grooves in the rods if they aren't hardened or there is too much tension pulling the bearing towards the rod.

Similar issues with fitting bearings to the y carriage 6mm drive rod, I wound up having to turn the ends of the rods in a metal lathe to get a proper fit.

Replacement carriages, very loose fit to the LM8UU bearings regardless of what I did in the printing process. First go-round I "fixed" the problem with a couple wraps of Kapton on the bearing shell. Still they loosened up after a while as well as the carriages themselves didn't prove to be as durable as I need for the amount of use my printer gets. Specifically the portion where the X carriage drive motor mounts would deteriorate fairly rapidly causing the motor to lean inwards letting the belt loosen. The final fix was a complete blank screen redraw of the carriages to fix the loose bearings and strengthen the motor mounting as well as conversion of the entire printer to bearings on all shafts. I also added a couple MM to the backside of the carriages to strengthen the bearing seats as well as adding captive nuts to allow locking screws to be used to hold the 8mm rods solidly in place. Along with that fix I installed a fan on the X carriage stepper, the reduction in heat also helps the longevity of the mount on the carriage block. I considered putting a fan on the Y stepper as well but as it mounts directly to the metal frame it heatsinks through that path fairly well.

Also did a complete redraw of the extruder block to make it more E3D friendly, new idler blocks to convert to bearings and replaced the belts with GT2 and all pulleys from 18 tooth MXL to 16 tooth GT2.

End result of all the mods is much tighter tolerances on prints with 100% repeatability. Considering I often run the SD3 8 to 10 hours a day, 5 or 6 days in a row I'm quite pleased with the more consistent performance.

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/NeanderthalRC/AP%20pictures/IMG_3012a_zps8f046fb2-1.jpg

One more note, Folger Tech, aka New Hampshire ebay seller, I bought a large portion of the gear to build my 3DR delta from him and got outstanding customer service. The order was placed a bit before Christmas and it appeared the USPS lost the shipment as the tracking went dead cold after it left the sorting facility, seller reshipped the entire thing after it hadn't updated in 4 days without question. Eventually it did wind up arriving after opening an inquiry with the PO, I just paid the seller for the additional parts rather than send them back, I can always find a use for them...

52

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Any chance you can post the stl for the parts you did? I really like the idea of the better support for the x mount... 

Thanks!!!

SD3, Lawsy Carriages with GT2 belts on x axis, BLTouch, Bondtech BMG extruder, E3D v6 via bowden, MIC6 bed with 200W heater w/SSR relay and a RUMBA controller

53

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

mloebl wrote:

Any chance you can post the stl for the parts you did? I really like the idea of the better support for the x mount... 

Thanks!!!

+1

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

54 (edited by RTRyder 2014-02-07 19:59:21)

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Here are the left and right side carriage blocks I'm using. If you want to use the right side you'll need a 5mm shaft and bearings as it has been modified to use ball bearings and a steel shaft rather than the pulley spinning on a bolt. As I recall I used a cutdown mainshaft and bearings for an Align Trex 450 RC helicopter but any 5mm shaft and appropriate bearings will do. If you need the exact bearing dimensions I'll measure the spares I have or you can just measure the hole they go into after printing the block. All dimensions are metric, even though I live in the USA, I refuse to use the Imperial fractional inch measuring system unless absolutely necessary...


P.S. you might have to open the lower holes for the stepper with a 3mm drill after you print, I run everything through my copy of Netfabb to make sure slicer can parse it and for some reason the repair script keeps wanting to close those holes!

Post's attachments

SD3_LeftSideCarriage.stl 631.14 kb, 75 downloads since 2014-02-07 

SD3_RightSideCarriage_Bearings.stl 750.96 kb, 53 downloads since 2014-02-07 

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55

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Awesome I am hoping this will gain me back some X- movement  and raise that motor up a little bit.  I really like the robust design as I also seem to be printing something all the time.  I will try to get this printed out this weekend and see how it meshes up with the bulldog XL mount.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

56 (edited by RTRyder 2014-02-07 20:47:57)

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

If I remember correctly I tried to keep the motor in pretty much the same place as the original replacements put it vertically, the main goal was mainly tighten up the bearing seats and make it as durable as possible, went through several iterations before I stopped at this one. Obviously based on Lawsy's original design which is very good, I just print way too much in a heated build chamber for them to stand up for an extended period to the abuse I put my SD3 through. Almost cut a set out of 6061 on the mill but decided to see if I could come up a set made of ABS that could handle the usage, so far the original set I printed of these two is still going strong after well over 100 hours of print time.

Making things like this is primarily what I use mine for...

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/NeanderthalRC/MultiRotor/IMG_2910a_zps74757af0.jpg

http://i851.photobucket.com/albums/ab71/NeanderthalRC/MultiRotor/IMG_3033_zpsdb304054.jpg

57 (edited by pirvan 2014-02-07 23:44:31)

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

A tri-copter ?!?  That's cool.  Is this a kit you can buy, or did you design it yourself?  Looks like you have blades on both sides, is that so you can flip it and fly it upside down ?   very interesting.... smile

What 3D gyro are you using for this?  I have a Skookum 360 I need to put to god use.  Maybe something like this ??

Damn... you never should have shown me this.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

58

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Same here...  I've been looking into getting into uavs/copters and your pics are making me drool a bit smile

SD3, Lawsy Carriages with GT2 belts on x axis, BLTouch, Bondtech BMG extruder, E3D v6 via bowden, MIC6 bed with 200W heater w/SSR relay and a RUMBA controller

59

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Nice Y6 RTRyder smile

looks like you got a NAZA in there, what kind of flight times are you getting on the tri?

60

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Not quite a tricopter, it's actually what's known as a Y6 hex. Tri's only have 3 motors and the rear most is on a servo controlled pivot that provides the yaw function. The Y6 like most normal quad or hex derives its yaw from changing motor speeds. In this case the top motors spin counterclockwise and the bottom all spin clockwise, by changing the speeds of the clockwise vs counterclockwise the torque reaction causes the frame to rotate around the center point. Two reasons most people use the Y setup vs. the more traditonal motors all in the same plane, one the widely spread arms in the front don't come into view if you're using the craft for aerial photography/video, and second because there are two motors on each arm it can usually survive the loss of a motor in flight without instantly crashing, a big consideration if you're carry a camera.

I do a lot of what's called FPV or First Person View flight. The little camera on the front of the orange quad is connected to a low power transmitter that sends the video signal down to a receiver on the ground and from there to a set of video goggles that the pilot wears. Basically the view I get while flying is exactly what that little camera is seeing, just as though I'm sitting there on the frame!

The Y6 is entirely my own design, I did all the layout, CAD work, printing and building mainly as a prototype for a client that wanted to proof of concept an industrial design of their own. I liked the way it flew so much I decided to build one for myself smile

None of my craft use Heli style gyros, all of them have dedicated multirotor flight controller systems and just about all of them also have onboard GPS for holding position in the air as well as return to home function if it loses the radio signal. Anyone that thinks tweaking firmware on a 3D printer controller can be daunting probably shouldn't start playing around with opensource flight controllers...

Hard to say what the full flight time will eventually be on the Y6, I've only had it flying for a couple weeks and the batteries don't last nearly as long in the freezing cold as they do in warmer weather. I can squeak out 10 minutes as it sits, flying in 30 degree F ambient temps. Temps 40 to 50 degrees warmer should yeild an increase of 2 or 3 minutes, possibly more. Yes that is a DJI Naza on the Y6 and also on the little orange one, I have many, many more of all types/brands and capability though only maybe half of them currently mounted on a frame.

mloebl wrote:

Same here...  I've been looking into getting into uavs/copters and your pics are making me drool a bit smile

You don't ever want to come to my house then, here in the man cave I have something like 15 or 16 multirotor aircraft of all sizes and shapes from little indoor fliers to rather large 6 motor carbon fiber framed craft that can carry a decent sized camera, used mostly for aerial video recording and occasionally still photography.

I see you're in MA, if Mansfield is within reasonable driving distance you're welcome to stop by the club flying field some weekend to check out some of my aircraft as long as you promise not to get any drool on them wink

61

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

neat i have 3 trex 450s one flybarless  they are super fun! id like to add a camera to it with those cool video glasses.. i might build a quad just cause it will be a fun project with my printer

62

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

RTRyder wrote:

I see you're in MA, if Mansfield is within reasonable driving distance you're welcome to stop by the club flying field some weekend to check out some of my aircraft as long as you promise not to get any drool on them wink

I may take you up on that, I'm up in Tyngsboro but not too far away from Mansfield at all...  I promise not to drool too much on them.

SD3, Lawsy Carriages with GT2 belts on x axis, BLTouch, Bondtech BMG extruder, E3D v6 via bowden, MIC6 bed with 200W heater w/SSR relay and a RUMBA controller

63

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

RTRyder wrote:

Also did a complete redraw of the extruder block to make it more E3D friendly

Would you mind posting your stl for the extruder?  I'm not a fan of the loose locking arm and I really like your redesign for my E3D when I put it on.

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

64 (edited by RTRyder 2014-04-21 15:08:45)

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

accusedmonk wrote:

Would you mind posting your stl for the extruder?  I'm not a fan of the loose locking arm and I really like your redesign for my E3D when I put it on.

I think this is the latest version, I've tweaked it couple times since V1...

I added the tension arm too although any of the existing ones will work, including the original clear one that comes with the SD

Post's attachments

E3D_extruder_clamp.stl 61.41 kb, 29 downloads since 2014-04-21 

E3D_Tension_Arm.stl 79.18 kb, 20 downloads since 2014-04-21 

SD_E3D_Extruder.stl 114.34 kb, 28 downloads since 2014-04-21 

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65

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

RTRyder wrote:

I think this is the latest version, I've tweaked it couple times since V1...

I added the tension arm too although any of the existing ones will work, including the original clear one that comes with the SD

Awesome, I have them printed out now and I will hopefully soon be able to install the E3D.  It fits together nicely!  Thank you!

Bowden SD3, Rumba, E3D hotend, Mk5 with RtRyder changes, Direct drive Y axis and bearings, GT2 pulleys and braided fishing line, Lawsy linear bearing conversion, M3 Z screw.

66

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

accusedmonk wrote:
RTRyder wrote:

I think this is the latest version, I've tweaked it couple times since V1...

I added the tension arm too although any of the existing ones will work, including the original clear one that comes with the SD

Awesome, I have them printed out now and I will hopefully soon be able to install the E3D.  It fits together nicely!  Thank you!


You're welcome!

One other thing you may want to do is download a beefier fan shroud for the E3D, I printed this one and found it to be a lot sturdier than what comes with the kit... http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:146012

I made the dimensions of the lower extruder fit the beefier shroud so you may find the stock one rattles around a bit as its not as tight a fit.

67

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

Thought I'd weigh in with a bit of mech eng on the solidoodle "crap stock" rods discussion:

Did a quiet measure with a micrometer, and the 6mm rod on my machine (SD3 jan 2014) is as close as I'll ever measure to 6.00mm diameter.
It should be reaaaallly difficult (and I tried, it was, and I gave up) to put 6.00mm diameter bearings onto a 6.00mm diameter rod, as the most minuscule misalignment or gouge in either part will clamp up. The rod isn't hardened (hence the problem with the set screw marks) but as far as diameter goes it's actually fine and so are eBay bearings, the problem is trying to fit exact OD's into exact ID's by hand.

My solution was to put the rod in the lathe (you could use a drill) and sand it down with some 320-grit (followed by 600 and 1200 to polish) wet-and-dry to take a fraction of a mm off the diameter, and that lets the bearings slide on and off firmly (measures to between 5.96 and 5.98mm now where I sanded it) - the clearance is necessary to do what we're doing here.

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

68

Re: Solidoodle stock rods not useable with linear bearings

grob wrote:

My solution was to put the rod in the lathe (you could use a drill) and sand it down with some 320-grit (followed by 600 and 1200 to polish) wet-and-dry to take a fraction of a mm off the diameter, and that lets the bearings slide on and off firmly (measures to between 5.96 and 5.98mm now where I sanded it) - the clearance is necessary to do what we're doing here.

This is what I did, but neither my bearings nor my rod were precisely 6mm.  Also, there's no need to polish to 600 and 1200 grit, since there is not anything sliding on the 6mm rod* exception here would be the ends if you use the default bronze sleeves (I unnecessarily upgraded to ball bearings.)

So my grits were more like 150-grit, 220grit, and 400 grit, approximately what I had on hand.


I actually found my stock 8mm solidoodle rods were fine to reuse, but I am debating whether or not I should cut down my other 8mm rods leftover from a different project, since they are much higher quality and seem to run smoother (but "seem" is a little silly since its hard to feel the friction levels we're talking about by hand.)