1 (edited by Necromant 2013-04-29 06:12:59)

Topic: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Okay, achievement unlocked, I got 50 micron layers printing steadily with no wobble, and no calibration required. Compared to a part printed with a professional 'dimension' printer for me - mine looked better! (EPIC WIN!)
If you remember my previous mod, I made a custom tall nut to eliminate wobble
Unfortunately, a slight periodic wobble still remained, because the threaded rod and the shaft were not centered. While lawsy implemented a software-only fix, I decided to go for the hardware fix, since the less variables we have to calibrate - the better (And no calibration can be 100% ideal in this world). Finally I wanted to ditch the 5/16 rod in favor of something metric and get more steps per mm for the Z axis.

I picked an assortment of different threaded rods from a local hardware store, and ended up using an M5 threaded rod, an ugly 3d-printed coupler (at first I thought that will be only a temporary solution, until a proper coupler arrives, but now I'll leave it as is) and again a 12mm tall DIY nut made from the same piece of brass. That gave me 4000 steps per mm.
http://pics.ncrmnt.org/junk/uberprint/I … 33.jpg.php

The worst part was detaching the original rod from the shaft. After nearly killing the stepper with the hammer, I decided I didn't want the original rod 'alive' anyway and ended up using a dremel and a cutoff disc to get the rod off.

http://pics.ncrmnt.org/junk/uberprint/I … 42.jpg.php
http://pics.ncrmnt.org/junk/uberprint/I … 03.jpg.php
http://pics.ncrmnt.org/junk/uberprint/I … 12.jpg.php

Once I finally assembled the thing,  I noticed that the movements instantly became very smooth. I tripple-checked the precision with a dial, and it looked even more promising. I think, the resulting photos of parts will say it all:
From left to right:
0.15 mm per layer, original 5/16 rod, no calibration, 12mm nut.
0.10 mm per layer, original 5/16 rod, no calibration, 12mm nut.
0.075 mm per layer, M5 rod, no calibration, 12mm nut.
0.05 mm per layer, M5 rod, no calibration, 12mm nut.

http://pics.ncrmnt.org/junk/uberprint/IMG_2291.JPG.php

P.S. The most frustrating experience was the freaking arduino, that never got to flash from the GUI. Why on earth people are addicted to this crap? Lucky me, there was a Makefile as well, and it worked (After adding ZWoble.cpp to CXXOBJS) with my avrdude installed.
For reference: the bootloader is running at 38400, so
avrdude -c arduino -p m644p -P /dev/ttyUSB0 -U flash:w:fw.hex worked fine.

P.P.S. My 3d-printed coupler attached. Use 6 M3 screws to assemble it. No nuts necessary - M3 taps all the way into it.

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rod_mount.stl 36.33 kb, 77 downloads since 2013-04-29 

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2

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

I've about to go through something similar too.

I'm also going to assemble a range of solutions. The most expensive is a ballscrew and the cheapest another threaded rod from the hardware store. I'll also try some acme lead screw as well.

Thanks for such a detailed post!

3 (edited by Necromant 2013-04-28 15:34:58)

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

I strongly suggest you make the acme lead screw yourself, if you have the hardware and skill, and carefully test how much you actually tap.
The factory-made nuts (at least in hardware stores here) are all overcut. M8 fits just too freely, so does M5, and that is really bad.
When I went for a custom nut for 5/16, I only used tap # I and #II out of three to get a very tight nut. For M5 #1 out of two was already sufficient for the nut to fit. But a more or less precise drill press and and a few precise steel bricks, to hold the brass vertical are a must here.
P.S. Does anyone need the 3d design of that ugly coupler?

4 (edited by ysb 2013-04-28 18:17:32)

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

post it.. it's always be good for someone smile

5

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

All sounds great! But as someone about to press th button and order one you're scaring the crap out of me! Lol

Is my SD going to work out of the box ?

Cheers

6

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

You probably have to heat the threaded rod at the end to expand it and remove it from the motor

7 (edited by frozensoda 2013-04-28 21:05:39)

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Staffordknot wrote:

All sounds great! But as someone about to press th button and order one you're scaring the crap out of me! Lol

Is my SD going to work out of the box ?

Cheers

I gather that this is just a method of fixing some of the known issues and not a necessary upgrade to print. All I can say is that as long as your printer was made with the same quality mine was, it will work pretty much out of the box and standard recalibration after changing environments.

also it looks like there is some really exciting things going on right now! I can't wait to see some of these freakish frankendoodles on the loose!

I edit my posts a lot.

8

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

pcpoirier wrote:

You probably have to heat the threaded rod at the end to expand it and remove it from the motor

Heating is a bad idea, since it will heat the motor shaft as well, and I don't think it will be good for it. Not sure how these motors handle it, but I have encountered a few motors that can be easily killed by heating the shaft. And it's too late to try anyway.

P.S. I have attached the coupler STL to the top post.

9

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

How is the origonal threaded rod attached tot he stepper?

10

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Got my 5mm rod this afternoon. Currently printing the mechanism which holds the nuts to the platform.

11 (edited by Necromant 2013-04-29 09:07:55)

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

nlancaster wrote:

How is the origonal threaded rod attached tot he stepper?

The original 5/16 (something close to M8, but not compatible) is drilled in the side, and tightly fitted on the shaft. Since there is no reliable way to drill it perfectly in the center (unless it is done on the same lathe, that produced the rod. But as I understand, these rods are not custom-machined), it gives us some wobble. And it is fitted really tight.

I'm getting my own lathe this summer, so I think I will also experiment with some custom threads as well.

12

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Almost finished my 5mm rod setup. One more part to print, but so far the motion seems really smooth and improved.

13

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

I have to take a pic when I get home. But with stock rod and Zwobble and tighten nut I definitely seem improvement. Most of my parts are for a real world parts (brackets, fixtures, enclosures) so .28mm works fine and gets painted and sanded anyway and I am printing for speed now  BUT I do want an improvement.

I notice that around 1/5-3/4" into any of my parts I noticed a slight shift/skip in the X not the Y! I had massive Y problems with alignment and tension and replaced all my stepper boards and it is fixed now. But trhe X should have little play and I noticed if you look at the front ofthe machine the right side, oppsite the x motor always seem to overshoot and buldge out about 1mm around 3/4 down the Z then it clears up and goes back to normal

Just made like 6 prints and all had it. the ones that are only 1/2-1" tall it isnt noticeable but now that I making 4" tall parts I see it more


I am thinking it is a warp in the Z rod? or maybe the Y front bracket clips are warping or maybe my acceleration is too high in the X?

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

14

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Great job.  I did something similar myself, but decided to go as thin as possible using an M3 rod:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2154/fix … aded-zrod/

I got instant results similar to yours too, though I noticed that when I originally mounted my coupler on crooked I got an amazing amount of wobble in the rod and coupler and the prints still came out banding-free.  I'm not sure how much is due to the find rod thread and how much to the flexibility of the thin rod, but going to a thinner/finer rod definitely seems the way to go. 

I used a helical coupling with the rod pushed in all the way to prevent vertical bounce.  This works great, but I suspect it's unnecessary with the thinness of the rod, and I have an solid inflexible coupling on order.

15

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Those improvements look great!

SD2 owner- Surestepr, filament holder,QUBD servo and heaters, glass bed
Print for fun and for parts for my sports cars
current car is 88 IROC

16

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

tealvince wrote:

Great job.  I did something similar myself, but decided to go as thin as possible using an M3 rod:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2154/fix … aded-zrod/

I got instant results similar to yours too, though I noticed that when I originally mounted my coupler on crooked I got an amazing amount of wobble in the rod and coupler and the prints still came out banding-free.  I'm not sure how much is due to the find rod thread and how much to the flexibility of the thin rod, but going to a thinner/finer rod definitely seems the way to go. 

I used a helical coupling with the rod pushed in all the way to prevent vertical bounce.  This works great, but I suspect it's unnecessary with the thinness of the rod, and I have an solid inflexible coupling on order.

I didn't find an M3, the smallest the hardware shop had was M4. After inspecting them all (I got M4, M5, M6 and M8 so that I can pick carefully), I decided to go for M5, since it looked like the the most suitable tradeoff between  steps_per_mm and having a solid rod that won't bend bearing the weight of the bed after some time.

17

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Necromant wrote:

I decided to go for M5, since it looked like the the most suitable tradeoff between  steps_per_mm and having a solid rod that won't bend bearing the weight of the bed after some time.

I picked the M3 with the same concerns in mind.  To find out what sizes would be safe, I wanted to try the most extreme case first to maximize flexibility and minimize thread pitch, and back up to a larger size only if I ran into bending problems.  Then I'd I'd know what the cutoff size would be.  An M3 has a .5mm thread pitch compared to an M5 with a .8mm pitch, so if it didn't bend, I figured it would give the best results.  Smaller rods and couplings also cost less.

The M3, however, has been much stronger than I had expected and I haven't run into any bending problems.  I don't know if it makes a difference, but I went with a stainless steel version.

18

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

So if I am reading this right. You need a coupler, a m5 rod , and a way to attach it to the bed. What changes have to be made with the firmware for this to work?

19

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

For best results ie less wobble would a larger diameter bar but really fine teeth be needed?

20

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Jonathan wrote:

So if I am reading this right. You need a coupler, a m5 rod , and a way to attach it to the bed. What changes have to be made with the firmware for this to work?

Correct. I have a set of STLs I'll post soon to attach the nut to the bed. The firmware changes are a single value that can be entered through the REpetier-Host EEPROM dialogue, so no firmware flashing required.

So far I can move the platform up and down 10mm and the dial gauge reports zero backlash and 0.01mm accuracy over that distance. Total cost for parts is around $10.

21

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Jonathan wrote:

So if I am reading this right. You need a coupler, a m5 rod , and a way to attach it to the bed. What changes have to be made with the firmware for this to work?

Yep, pretty much like that. ABS coupler, despite being ugly worked like a charm for me.
What concerns the attachment to the bed - see my linked post with the custom brass nut and an abs nut holder. You can adjust the openscad file to your liking, if you use a different acme nut.
Firmware only requires setting a different steps_per_mm value for Z axis, (something like M31 Z4000 if I'm not mistaken with the command number). But I hardwired the value in the Configuration.h of the firmware, since I wanted to update for a long time anyway.

22 (edited by Necromant 2013-05-01 10:41:45)

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Staffordknot wrote:

For best results ie less wobble would a larger diameter bar but really fine teeth be needed?

Theoretically - it would. But to make one you need a good lathe, and custom lathe machining on hardware markets are quite expensive here even for simple parts. (not taking in account, that there are often idiots operating the lathe there)
But there's one more thing.
If the rod is thick, it will serve as a third rail for the bed, and since we have a nice triangle there it would stabilize the bed even more.
But! The top part of the rod is loose, so whatever sideways load we put on it will end up on the motor shaft. And there's no way to reliably secure the top end of the rod so that it will be strictly vertical, like they do it on acrylic 3d-printer bases, where the precision of the laser cutter guarantees that precision.
In other words - a thicker rod with fine pitch threads would help, but in our case we won't be able to install it reliably with enough precision to see the difference.

lawsy wrote:

So far I can move the platform up and down 10mm and the dial gauge reports zero backlash and 0.01mm accuracy over that distance. Total cost for parts is around $10.

Just curious, what nut did you use? A regular M5 nut, or a custom 12mm nut? And how many steps_per_mm did you end up with?

23

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Regular M5 nut, except two of them with an anti backlash holder.

Steps per mm was 4501.

24

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

I haven't even got my printer and already my head is swimming with building a printer from scratch. Lol... I better not get distracted. I used to work for a printing company that had paper guilitine working on screw threads accurate to 0.01 mm wish I'd looked how they work now lol.

Am i correct in thinking most of the components for the solidoodle are generic components, i.e. the motors and circuit boards? Whats to stop you from buildi a new frame and making a bigger printer? Is the software a limiting factor?

25

Re: [MOD] Rod replacement for ultra-precise 50 micron (0.050mm) Z layers!

Nothing really. Software and firmware is really easy to configure if you are just changing the printer area dimensions.