1 Topic by Caucasian

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Topic: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

So I've been trying to keep abreast of the whole charade with Thingiverse. I know the TOS changed in February to allow them 100% access to anything posted to their site, and they even swiped a few ideas and made them part of their second gen Replicator. However, they close sourced their project immediately. I know Solidoodle is so far closed source, but I don't see anyone trying to make a 'knock-off' because there is no way in hell they'd be able to sell it for cheaper.

Since this I know people have been yanking their prints left and right. I do like the idea of thingiverse, it has been extremely handy to be able to make something that was already designed right, or borrow ideas to apply to other prints that I am making. There are several websites that offer this already (piratebays 'physibles', etc) but thingiverse was the end-all-be-all of these sites.

I figure I'll go where the S2 community goes, so, if anyone is planning on joining the exodus, where are you planning on going? Are you going to continue to share prints? Or do you think that the commercialization of 3D printing is going to kill the open source nature of it all?

2 Reply by Brad

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

If theres a need for an independent place to share stls... Im sure I could make it happen with a dedicated website similar to thingiverse.

Brad's Website

3 Reply by maryla

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

Apparently someone's already working on it thingiverse.com/thing:30856

4 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

It looks like the Thingiverse EULA thing is a little overblown.  It's mostly boilerplate required to host other people's things on a site.  It says that all the rights Thingiverse gives itself in regard to your IP is for the sole purpose of putting it on the site.  I think Prusa is overreacting, and he has enough of a following to turn it into something.

Makerbot going closed source on something that has been built on open source hardware is another issue.  With the software at least, it seems like it is only the GUI that is proprietary.  Their new slicer, Miracle Grue isn't closed.

5 Reply by GrilledPeaches

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

If they did take ideas from open sourced projects on Thingiverse to implement in their replicator 2 without giving credit that is unacceptable.  Especially to take other peoples' work that is explicitly open source and making it into a product that is closed source (for now anyways).  I think it's an abuse of their licensing policy and that they are using it only for their own personal gain.  They are just discouraging open innovation on their website if they are just going to steal ideas.  Not saying that they did.  But if I saw proof that they had borrowed ideas without giving credit, I would be pretty disappointed. There's my thoughts.

6 Reply by ysb

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

free makerware for makerbot replicator 2...

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120922- … rbots.html


how to use makerware with other printer...

Find all my 3D printable models here
Game of ropes 2 online..Adult only

ysb's Website

7 Reply by ysb (edited by ysb 2012-10-01 14:23:53)

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

and something that made thingiverse evil...

http://richrap.blogspot.de/2012/09/tct2 … 6686880914

extract.. :

Makerbot – “Some people will not like that we have gone closed source, but they all use Thingiverse whether they like it or not, we have the biggest community”

The discussion continued, I moved on.
Sadly, they also failed the Maker test; I was reasonably ignored every time I went on their stand. I didn’t pick up a Makerbot sticker… Where would I put it now?

Maketbot are obviously seeing a change on Thingiverse, they are trying to focus on the Terms of Service questions that also sparked up debate and fractures in the community along with the bigger issue of going closed source – They even have their Lawyer trying to explain that ‘everything will be ok’ Trust us.


and if you read the comment of this article.. our 'friend' bre answer... and answer of the answer...

bre pettis 28 September 2012 14:43

Hey, You absolutely misquoted MakerBot.

Makerbot – “Some people will not like that we have gone closed source, but they all use Thingiverse whether they like it or not, we have the biggest community”.

This was absolutely not said and you are either paraphrasing or making something up that you wish you heard. I hope you can confirm that you are paraphrasing and interpreting.

We are an open-spirited company and we are not sharing just two parts of the Replicator 2. The steel frame because that's of little use to the community and the GUI, because we care about the user experience. With the Replicator 2 release, we are putting more than a million dollars of paid development into the open.

We treat our users with respect and we worked hard to clear up the controversy on Thingiverse as quickly as possible. We are dedicated to bringing MakerBots to the desktops of every creative explorer in the world.

RichRap 30 September 2012 10:52

Hello Bre,

Firstly I'm really pleased to see you are talking an interest in this.

I visited the Makerbot stand 5 times during the day, (as I did with almost all other stands) each time I listened to what was being said carefully.

I could have said a lot more in this post, but my intention was to highlight some changing times in the community that's really why the 3D systems conversation with Cathy and listening to the conversation with Makerbot and Todd Grimm stood out.

Ask you sales guy if he remembers telling one customer that the tolerance on the Filament was 10 microns. He had a short pause and looked confused, realised he was wrong and corrected the mistake telling the customer is was actually +/- 100microns.
This was quite early on in the day, and at my first visit I was very impressed he recognised the mistake and didn't just cover it up or let it go.
If he can't remember that, then he has a poor recollection of what he is talking to people about.

The conversation about being a distributor was again listening on my second visit to the stand, it was not a private conversation, and I found the subject and way it was being discussed interesting.

As I said I was there to listen, I didn't get a chance to engage with the Makerbot team, and to them I was just another random consumer standing for quite a long time on their stand. That was the whole point.

When anyone is representing a company it's very important to be mindful of what is being discussed, every 'consumer' has the power to tweet, or write-up their interactions with individuals or the experience they get.
Sales people should listen to the customer, much more than they talk.

The very reason I decided to stand back and take a photo of Todd Grimm on the Makerbot stand was because of what I was hearing, and I was just standing there listening to the conversation, I actually walked off before the end, as I didn't want to hear any more. I was just disappointed in the general tone.

I do hope you work through this period and come out stronger.

I like Makerbot, and I really Love Thingiverse, I have lots of projects on it. But with the changes at Makerbot you have made people ask questions about what alternatives are out there?

I have not changed the way I work. And I do not wish to be involved in any 'Makerbot bashing', but listening to these conversations at the show I now have my own feelings for Makerbot along with lots of other companies, both positive and negative.

I have a very long experience in Engineering Sales & Marketing and I would be very happy to talk to you more if you so wish.

Best Regards,

Rich.

Find all my 3D printable models here
Game of ropes 2 online..Adult only

ysb's Website

8 Reply by danny

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

Given the amount of things going on at makerbot.

I don't see how I would be happy releasing items and ideas on the thingyverse.

I'm not convinced that I'll use any of the replacements that appear either.

I'll be uploading any solidoodle based items here on this forum.
and anything else that's mine I'll release via my own blog etc

when I say the amount of things going on at makerbot, I mean that they are starting down the road to closed source.
I get why they are doing it. (to protect commercial interests).
but if that's the case then they should go the whole way.

you can't be open source hardware with secret bits that mean you can't re-create.
my view is, shit or get off the pot!

I don't care if they go closed source, but there is no way I'm uploading my work to further their business.

Just the same as I'll happily post my software code to user coding forums, but have never uploaded code to people who make a business of selling code.

9 Reply by zimmer62

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

Some of the things we post around here may or may not help a closed source company.  I guess I just don't see why thingiverse is such a bad place for that.

Example I posted a bushing plug that goes in the back of a solidoodle, and I posted it on thingiverse. 

If people want that bushing (there have been 73 downloads)... great, print it.  If solidoodle wants to print them and ship them with their printers, great, it should have had that piece in the first place, print it and patent it for all I care, it's not like I was going to make money on the idea of a plastic bushing to protect the filament.

If I come up with some unique invention that I don't want to give away, I'm not going to post it anywhere, since that would be giving someone else the ability to take/steal it.

I just don't see the point,  things we would likely be posting are hardly likely to be a game changing part that gives makerbot some sort of advantage over their competition. 

Maybe I'm not fully grasping the situation, I most certainly wouldn't post anything anywhere online that I wouldn't give away for free (including my comments here on this forum)

10 Reply by ysb (edited by ysb 2012-10-04 12:09:22)

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

it's not a problem of advantage.. it's more like a problem of "control"...

Makerbot control thingiverse like apple control the itune app store... so you don't know what they will do in the future...

they decide what you can do or not and how you can do they can change it anytime...  i already seen a couple of objects that disappeared without any reason from thingiverse a couple of hours after being uploaded.. (sometime it's because there is a link to a company...not a valid reason for me) so now , i check every day, and if i see something good, i download it as soon as possible...

we need a free alternative .... if the site was more convenient, I would use pirate bay "physical" section to upload my creation.. but it's not "friendly"...

Find all my 3D printable models here
Game of ropes 2 online..Adult only

ysb's Website

11 Reply by zimmer62

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

I can understand that.  I think the same can be true with just about any site though.

I've been silenced from message boards by posting the truth and the company that ran the board didn't like it.  Posting links to competitors and such.

Sites that profit from user contributed content is always an issue with me, but you can't avoid that.  You do a google search, or facebook or just about anything and you are helping someone else profit.  You follow their rules like it or not.

I'm pretty sure you could setup a script to mirror all of the parts on thingiverse for a just in case scenario.   But I kind of feel like nothing that is there couldn't be recreated by a determined individual, and if you were to contact the community asking for the part in question someone would have it, recreate it for you, or direct you towards the author of what you're looking for in the first place.

12 Reply by solijohn

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Re: Thingiverse and the future of sharing prints

ysb wrote:

and something that made thingiverse evil...

http://richrap.blogspot.de/2012/09/tct2 … 6686880914

extract.. :

Makerbot – “Some people will not like that we have gone closed source, but they all use Thingiverse whether they like it or not, we have the biggest community”

The discussion continued, I moved on.
Sadly, they also failed the Maker test; I was reasonably ignored every time I went on their stand. I didn’t pick up a Makerbot sticker… Where would I put it now?

Maketbot are obviously seeing a change on Thingiverse, they are trying to focus on the Terms of Service questions that also sparked up debate and fractures in the community along with the bigger issue of going closed source – They even have their Lawyer trying to explain that ‘everything will be ok’ Trust us.


and if you read the comment of this article.. our 'friend' bre answer... and answer of the answer...

bre pettis 28 September 2012 14:43

Hey, You absolutely misquoted MakerBot.

Makerbot – “Some people will not like that we have gone closed source, but they all use Thingiverse whether they like it or not, we have the biggest community”.

This was absolutely not said and you are either paraphrasing or making something up that you wish you heard. I hope you can confirm that you are paraphrasing and interpreting.

We are an open-spirited company and we are not sharing just two parts of the Replicator 2. The steel frame because that's of little use to the community and the GUI, because we care about the user experience. With the Replicator 2 release, we are putting more than a million dollars of paid development into the open.

We treat our users with respect and we worked hard to clear up the controversy on Thingiverse as quickly as possible. We are dedicated to bringing MakerBots to the desktops of every creative explorer in the world.

RichRap 30 September 2012 10:52

Hello Bre,

Firstly I'm really pleased to see you are talking an interest in this.

I visited the Makerbot stand 5 times during the day, (as I did with almost all other stands) each time I listened to what was being said carefully.

I could have said a lot more in this post, but my intention was to highlight some changing times in the community that's really why the 3D systems conversation with Cathy and listening to the conversation with Makerbot and Todd Grimm stood out.

Ask you sales guy if he remembers telling one customer that the tolerance on the Filament was 10 microns. He had a short pause and looked confused, realised he was wrong and corrected the mistake telling the customer is was actually +/- 100microns.
This was quite early on in the day, and at my first visit I was very impressed he recognised the mistake and didn't just cover it up or let it go.
If he can't remember that, then he has a poor recollection of what he is talking to people about.

The conversation about being a distributor was again listening on my second visit to the stand, it was not a private conversation, and I found the subject and way it was being discussed interesting.

As I said I was there to listen, I didn't get a chance to engage with the Makerbot team, and to them I was just another random consumer standing for quite a long time on their stand. That was the whole point.

When anyone is representing a company it's very important to be mindful of what is being discussed, every 'consumer' has the power to tweet, or write-up their interactions with individuals or the experience they get.
Sales people should listen to the customer, much more than they talk.

The very reason I decided to stand back and take a photo of Todd Grimm on the Makerbot stand was because of what I was hearing, and I was just standing there listening to the conversation, I actually walked off before the end, as I didn't want to hear any more. I was just disappointed in the general tone.

I do hope you work through this period and come out stronger.

I like Makerbot, and I really Love Thingiverse, I have lots of projects on it. But with the changes at Makerbot you have made people ask questions about what alternatives are out there?

I have not changed the way I work. And I do not wish to be involved in any 'Makerbot bashing', but listening to these conversations at the show I now have my own feelings for Makerbot along with lots of other companies, both positive and negative.

I have a very long experience in Engineering Sales & Marketing and I would be very happy to talk to you more if you so wish.

Best Regards,

Rich.

The whole Thingiverse debacle has been kind of sad to watch. The guys from Makerbot have always been very cool to us, and we know how hard it can be to run a 3D printing company. I will say that at Maker Faire the both was mostly manned by younger Maker Bot employees. We visited expecting to see Bre and the gang, only to meet a few interns and salesmen. I guess we missed them.  They are wonderful guys, and I myself have hung out and hacked with them at NYC resistor a number of times.
The Thingiverse decision is hard to swallow. While we are not open source, we realize that one of the hardest decisions is to go from open source to closed. You know that you are going to alienate some members of community. The reaction in the wider RepRap community was quite bad.

Former Solidoodle employee, no longer associated with the company.