1 (edited by lund8619 2016-12-22 05:15:25)

Topic: Over Extruding Center of Walls

Hey all,

I'm new to the scene, so forgive me if I have misdiagnosed my issue. I stole one of my pictures because I think it shows what I'm talking about even more than my own picture. My picture is of the pink print. There is a bead running down the center of the top of the wall, best seen in the u̶p̶p̶e̶r̶ ̶r̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶h̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶n̶e̶r̶ upper left hand corner of the image. The stolen image I believe also shows this same trait. It's seems to me like the exterior of the walls are being printed, then the center is being over-filled.

What I have done so far:
- tuned down the extrusion multiplier until there are small gaps in the flats of my print.

Using Slic3r, Repetier Host, with a Da Vinci 1.0

Any ideas?



EDIT: Looks like the orientation of the image is different than I expected. The issue looks like what I would describe as a weld bead down the center of the wall.

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2

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

In Slic3r you can set extrusion widths (tool paths) of different functions.  Things like perimeters and infill will need different values.  It really looks like you are under extruding as far as extrusion calibration goes. This leads me to think the tool paths themselves aren't set correctly.  Of course this will mean nothing if there is mechanical slop in your system.  Something like a loose belt can really mess up a print.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
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Thanks to all for your contributions

3

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

Thanks for the response. What leads you to believe I am under-extruding? For the image I included of my own print (the pink one) I believe I was over extruding. The print was with all of Slic3rs default settings except the filament and nozzle diameter.

Since this print, I have printed half a dozen Benchy's. My belief is that I was over-extruding because of the issue I posted about, as well as marks on the top fill from my nozzle dragging through it. I changed only the extrusion multiplier to 0.9, then 0.8, then 0.7 before noticing major gaps between the toolpath on the "deck" of the Benchy. Looking back, I can see small gaps in the 0.8 extrusion multiplier print as well. I am currently printing at 0.85, but I still see small gaps. I think 0.9 is what I need to be using for extrusion multiplier.

As for my issue though, I completely believe the solution is between the extrusion widths page and possibly the number of vertical shells, This is where I have been toying around, but with very little success. My best results so far have been seen by reducing the widths to 0.4, but from what I am reading, it is not advised to use an extrusion width lower than about 120% of the nozzle diameter, so I'm kind of confused there. Do you have a suggestion for settings to use here for a 0.4mm nozzle?

4

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I have lots of suggestions and will be happy to help you through proper calibration but it's going to have to be tomorrow.  Early morning ahead so I'll check in with you tomorrow.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

5

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

Since wardjr is busy, I will chime in here...

1. have you calibrated your extruder steps/mm? this is where you start. If you ask for 100mms of filament to be fed in, you need to get 100mms of filament... for more info, read this: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fil … ion-part-1

2. Have you calibrated your filament? average diameter, etc?
No two spools of filament will be the same, and it is very rare to have one that is exactly 1.75mm in diameter. For a slicing program to produce accurate results, it needs accurate information. Also, the extrusion multiplier should be calculated for a given spool of filament - not randomly changed. For more information on this aspect, see here: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-fl … coming-out

Good calibration routines are essential to producing good prints.

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6

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I will admit that I skipped the steps/mm calibration of the extruded and fine measurement of my specific roll of filament. I tuned the multiplier to the point that I was getting good results for areas with large, flat, solid infills.

I assumed that my steps/mm was correct and did not need correcting since when using CuraEngine, my prints looked okay. As for the filament diameter, I did measure my filament when I concluded I was overextending to see if the Dia was greater than 1.75, but it was just slightly smaller, so I concluded that lowering the filament diameter would only increase the true amount of filament extruded, making my issue worse. Do these seem like reasonable conclusions to make on what is/is not my problem?

I know the extrusion multiplier is probably designed as a final fudge factor, but in the event that the steps/mm is actually off, and the filament diameter is close but not spot on, is there an issue with compensating with the extrusion width?

7

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

It will be easier to start by inputting any known value available.  Otherwise you'll be chasing your tail with a bunch of best guesses.  In your picture you are over extruding, I was thinking you were under extruding based on one of your comments of reducing the multiplier till you had holes in the perimeters.  It didn't help that I then confused the two photos you had posted.  In that other persons picture there is some form of mechanical slop in the system.

In your picture you have general over extrusion.  If when you decrease the multiplier to get nice perimeters and infill, you get spaces between the lines on a bottom layer.  This is where you can decrease the extrusion width to close that gap without messing up your calibration.  You can also change extrusion width of infill patterns to achieve nicer surfaces.  This is especially important on 100% infill parts.
I can assume you have a .4 nozzle so this means your general extrusion width will be .48.  I like to use a first layer extrusion width of .36.  Then I set perimeters to .48. Infill widths can range based on what filament and the type of part I am printing but (.44-.52)

I am not certain what "line" you are referring to.  But if it's the space between the outer perimeters,  that's the "infill" section.  Remember that a Slicer is working in multiples of .48 in the X,Y axis.  If a particular area of a print is 2mm wide and you have selected 2 perimeters.  The Slicer is going to create tool paths to fulfill the perimeters first.  This will give 4 lines that add up to 1.92mm.  The Slicer then has to make some assumptions about the remaining .08mm.  If you have selected zero infill it's not a problem as it will just leave a gap between the two sets of perimeters.  If you selected 100% infill it's going to struggle to fill that tiny gap without over extruding.  This is where tweaking that infill extrusion width can come in handy.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

8

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I think that last paragraph hits the nail dead on the head with what I am dealing with. I've heard it's best to keep wall width a multiplier or the extrusion width, but that doesn't seem like a robust solutions to me as there could be two different width walls in a single print.

For the print I am doing right now (raspberry pi case), I do not have large, hollow areas to infill, so I think setting the infill parameter to 0 would be a viable solution for this print, but what about a print like a benchy, where there is need for infill?

Is there a setting that I could ignore small gaps like the 0.08" in your example above?

9 (edited by lund8619 2016-12-22 16:32:06)

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

Has anyone else seen issues with different versions of Slic3r as seen in the post linked below? This seems to be another example of the issue I am having with the resolution being to not use the most current release of the software. I will see if I can give a different version of Slic3r a try. Currently using the latest Linux build.

http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?262,549909

10 (edited by lund8619 2016-12-22 17:13:40)

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I have been unable to test this, but my confidence is saying what the issue is is growing. I am using V1.2.9. I will give the previous stable build a try when I get a chance, but I would also like to look into a workaround for the bug.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Slic3r#Known_Bugs

11

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I have found on more than one occasion newest in terms of software is not the best.  If it works,  don't fix it and don't update it. With Cura I still prefer the old 10.3 over any other. I have now moved to Simplify3d and it is the only software I use now. But it is not free.

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
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12

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

Try Slic3r 1.0.0RC3 it's the only version that does exactly what you tell it to.  Some minor profile changes or things listed as percent were on a 1-10 scale instead so if you get errors check those first.  Ex. infill 90% is .9 instead

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

13

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I use version 1.2.9 with no problems - but then I have properly calibrated my steps/mm and have set specific extrusion widths in the advanced tab, so the "bug" is not a problem for me

fudging numbers just doesn't work. If you want to solve your extrusion problems - do it right.

"Anything worth doing, is worth doing right"

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

14

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

I've also had problems with overextruding infill, details can be seen on this thread:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/14283/af … -problems/

I've successfully solved my problems by:

a) following the advice of wardjr and heartless on that thread, i.e. proper extrusion calibration. Thanks guys!
b) using slic3r from upstream, i.e. newer than 1.2.9

my $0.02

15

Re: Over Extruding Center of Walls

Thanks guys. I'm away from home for the holidays, but when I get back, I'll give all this a try. I did have time to give V1.1.6 a shot and that seemed to resolve the issue at first glance.