1 (edited by brucesdad13 2016-10-27 21:43:47)

Topic: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

I printed Lawsy's carriages since I'm having all sorts of issues with my prints. The secondhand Solidoodle 2 Pro came with two spools of ABS... my basement is cold and even with the enclosure and the bed at 105C I get warping... I've tuned out most of the other really bad issues... anyways I woke up this morning to one of the carriages looking like this after 8 hours (I tried slowing things down)

http://soliforum.com/i/?UvtMykg.jpg

My 8mm linear bearings arrived and don't seem to fit and I wonder if it's because ABS contracts so much? I have a spool of PLA on order and maybe it's more forgiving...

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

2

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Try scaling the print up by 2 percent.  Typically if you design the part you need to make all dimensions over size by about a half mm or so to compensate for shrinkage. Some host have a setting you can use to oversize the print automatically if you know the shrinkage percentage of a particular spool.  As for slowing down,  what did you slow down to?

Printing since 2009 and still love it!
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Anycubic Predator, massive Delta machine. 450 x 370 print envelope.

3

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Looks like your fundamental issue is axis skipping caused by over extrusion.  This also explains why you're having fitment issues. 
Not that what Carl stated is incorrect, as the primary redesigner of that part I can say with certainty, that's not your problem here.
If you haven't or don't understand how to calibrate your extrusion multiplier, let us know.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

4

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Thanks! What I've done to date is heated the machine to the bed and extrusion temp I will be printing at: 105C bed and 215C extruder. I then mark 100mm of fillament start-finish and extrude 100mm via Repetier host and have found a setting where it stops spot on every time. Is that not the best method? My test cube single wall has correct width give or take some margin of error.

Oh... now I'm seeing that after uploading the new firmware last night my settings vanished wink Nooo... I think I have my settings saved will that also apply to the EEPROM settings? I suppose I should update the config header with my own machine values?

wardjr wrote:

Looks like your fundamental issue is axis skipping caused by over extrusion.  This also explains why you're having fitment issues. 
Not that what Carl stated is incorrect, as the primary redesigner of that part I can say with certainty, that's not your problem here.
If you haven't or don't understand how to calibrate your extrusion multiplier, let us know.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

5

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Could anyone post their settings (as a starting place) for Marlin Firmware Solidoodle Pro 2 e.g. Acceleration and so forth? Thank goodness I wrote down my calculations for XYZE and KP,KI,KD. I will load them and see if they're still accurate.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

6

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Changing it in EEPROM should be all you need to do.  Save changes and next time it should be the same. 
What nozzle diameter do you have and what single wall thickness are you measuring?
.35 nozzle should equal .42
.40 nozzle should equal .48
I don't know the exact age of your machine but somewhere in that timeframe they switched to a .4

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

7

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

brucesdad13 wrote:

Could anyone post their settings (as a starting place) for Marlin Firmware Solidoodle Pro 2 e.g. Acceleration and so forth? Thank goodness I wrote down my calculations for XYZE and KP,KI,KD. I will load them and see if they're still accurate.

All the base values in the firmware are good.
The only thing you need to change in EEPROM is steps/mm for E
And if you do a PID Autotune you can change PID values but the base values should be very close.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

8

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

I have an E3D hotend with a .4mm nozzle. I am using the 0.5mm_single_wall_calibration_piece to calibrate. Can't remember now where I downloaded it. Have followed this guide as well as others... http://tomhorsley.com/hardware/solidood … ation.html I have an accurate digital caliper. Somewhere I saw a parametric single wall box but I figured .5 was close enough to .48... no?

wardjr wrote:

Changing it in EEPROM should be all you need to do.  Save changes and next time it should be the same. 
What nozzle diameter do you have and what single wall thickness are you measuring?
.35 nozzle should equal .42
.40 nozzle should equal .48
I don't know the exact age of your machine but somewhere in that timeframe they switched to a .4

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

9

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

http://soliforum.com/i/?jO2AX83.png <-- current settings after reinputting and testing... and PID autotune with 5 cycles

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

10

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Here's my steps for marking the filament (using binder clips on steel ruler instead of drinking straw) and then the .5mm single wall test print looking good.

http://soliforum.com/i/?PlPs5Az.jpg

http://soliforum.com/i/?2mG6suO.jpg

http://soliforum.com/i/?SpnYa53.jpg

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

11

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Use a solid cube and tell your profile to print a single perimeter with zero infill and no top layer.
Remember we are talking about fractions of mm's here.  Compound that over many layers and you'll have problems.
What is your extrusion multiplier set at currently?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

12

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Did you see my posts #9 and #10? Does that answer your question?

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

13

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Yes I did, kind of poked that in there while I typed wink
.5 is too much and you adjust that in your slice profile with "extrusion multiplier"
We calibrate steps/mm to set the amount fed to the extruder.
We then use our slice profile to determine the amount coming from the nozzle by telling it the actual filament diameter.  Then the extrusion  multiplier is our fudge factor to dial it in.

Granted all of these things control the amount of filament fed and at what rate.  It's best to start by entering the values that we know first.
Steps/mm fed in is the first know value
Filament diameter averaged across several feet is the second known value.
Extrusion width is the third known value (120% of nozzle diameter). .48 in your case.
Then we use "extrusion multiplier" as the final fudge factor to yield the perfect .48 extrusion to match the .48 extrusion path that the nozzle follows.

All of the above are set in your slice profile other than steps/mm.

Recap
1. Step/mm (which you've done)
2. Actual filament (averaged) diameter
3. Extrusion widths (tool path) set to .48
4. Test print and adjust extrusion multiplier until you get .48 single wall.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

14 (edited by brucesdad13 2016-10-28 02:47:11)

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Alright, I'll try that out. smile I babysat this part during the layers where it had been failing. I think it's the best part I've ever printed. If I can get the other carriage replacement pieces to print this good I'll be in great shape.

http://soliforum.com/i/?KnfRKaF.jpg

wardjr wrote:

Yes I did, kind of poked that in there while I typed wink
.5 is too much and you adjust that in your slice profile with "extrusion multiplier"
We calibrate steps/mm to set the amount fed to the extruder.
We then use our slice profile to determine the amount coming from the nozzle by telling it the actual filament diameter.  Then the extrusion  multiplier is our fudge factor to dial it in.

Granted all of these things control the amount of filament fed and at what rate.  It's best to start by entering the values that we know first.
Steps/mm fed in is the first know value
Filament diameter averaged across several feet is the second known value.
Extrusion width is the third known value (120% of nozzle diameter). .48 in your case.
Then we use "extrusion multiplier" as the final fudge factor to yield the perfect .48 extrusion to match the .48 extrusion path that the nozzle follows.

All of the above are set in your slice profile other than steps/mm.

Recap
1. Step/mm (which you've done)
2. Actual filament (averaged) diameter
3. Extrusion widths (tool path) set to .48
4. Test print and adjust extrusion multiplier until you get .48 single wall.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

15

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

How do I input step 3? Is that done in the STL file creation process or something in Slic3r?

wardjr wrote:

Yes I did, kind of poked that in there while I typed wink
Recap
1. Step/mm (which you've done)
2. Actual filament (averaged) diameter
3. Extrusion widths (tool path) set to .48
4. Test print and adjust extrusion multiplier until you get .48 single wall.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

16 (edited by brucesdad13 2016-10-28 03:26:57)

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Ah I found it... my extrusion multiplier is set to 1.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

17

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Extrusion width is in your slice profile as you have figured out.  (Clarity for others)
An extrusion multiplier in theory is perfect but in practice on your set up closer to .90 would be what I would expect to see.  As long as your single perimeter wall is measured at .48, that's all that matters.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Well after drilling down with test prints for awhile it looks like it's actually 0.8. Calculating averages I had it at 0.801 but then my average perim was .489 so truncated to 0.8.... trying another print now. The next issue is that my box is slightly short in the Y axis hmm

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

19 (edited by brucesdad13 2016-10-28 04:44:52)

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Meant to add that it measures perhaps .5 in one spot and .47 in another so I took 8 measurements two on each wall all the way around and it hits ~0.49 rounded up so tweaking once more. The first time I ran it the way you described using a solid cube 1 perimeter thick it came in at 0.599mm thick

wardjr wrote:

Extrusion width is in your slice profile as you have figured out.  (Clarity for others)
An extrusion multiplier in theory is perfect but in practice on your set up closer to .90 would be what I would expect to see.  As long as your single perimeter wall is measured at .48, that's all that matters.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

20

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

If I may - I have done a couple of write-ups on how to properly calibrate and posted them on my blog.... broken into 2 parts...

Part 1 - average filament diameter and E-steps/mm: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fil … ion-part-1

Part 2 - Extrusion calibration: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-fl … coming-out

SD4 #1 & #2 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan, upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #3 - in the works ~ Folgertech FT-5, rev 1
Printit Industries Beta Tester - Horizon H1

21

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

heartless wrote:

If I may - I have done a couple of write-ups on how to properly calibrate and posted them on my blog.... broken into 2 parts...

Part 1 - average filament diameter and E-steps/mm: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/fil … ion-part-1

Part 2 - Extrusion calibration: http://northwoods3d.weebly.com/blog/-fl … coming-out

You must have had a great teacher somewhere along the way wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

22

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Thanks again all! I printed replacement carriages last night after getting decent calibration and installed them this morning. They're so smooth and quiet with these bearings. Amazing! big_smile I had no trouble leveling or printing a good test cube. Now to take a look at heartless tutorials... smile

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

23

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

Do you have a caliper?  There is some z wobble in your print, and since you are measuring across something like 5mm, the waviness in both directions is causing the wall to appear thicker than it really is, leading you to use a setting that under extrudes.  The last print you showed shows some underextrusion, or at least inconsistent extrusion with some gaps in the surface. 

With a sliding caliper, you can use the tips to measure just a few layers to get a truer sense of the actual extrusion with.

24

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

I have the micrometer show in one of the photos above. I need to order a different style caliper. Any product suggestions? I definitely have some Z wobble the platform visibly moves. I've just this morning tried PLA for the first time and it's SO much more forgiving than ABS.

IanJohnson wrote:

Do you have a caliper?  There is some z wobble in your print, and since you are measuring across something like 5mm, the waviness in both directions is causing the wall to appear thicker than it really is, leading you to use a setting that under extrudes.  The last print you showed shows some underextrusion, or at least inconsistent extrusion with some gaps in the surface. 

With a sliding caliper, you can use the tips to measure just a few layers to get a truer sense of the actual extrusion with.

SD2 Pro + RH + Slic3r on Win7Ent (~Craigslist Oct. 2016 my 1st printer: upgrading & calibrating to near perfection)
- E3D V6 hotend; 30A PSU; Glass bed for ABS or Blue Tape on glass for PLA
- X-axis NEMA 14 press on fan (thing:1871741); Lawsy almost everything else; 3mm Z axis rod (thing:1868824)
- Sang board w/all headers, ATmega1284P w/OptiBoot and Marlin beta firmware; VRef tuned

25

Re: Bearings Don't Fit ABS Printed Parts

I have the micrometer show in one of the photos above. I need to order a different style caliper. Any product suggestions?

Why do you need to order a caliper. Calipers are fine and available at different price points. 
Calipers are not as acurate but do have more range and capability.
I have many of the cheap harbor freight . They work but are not as smooth as the good ones . If you want or feel you need calipers and like your Fowler look first at Fowler.

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