1

Topic: PLA troubles - strange

I am running a SD3 with E3D v6.  I bought some Night Glow PLA from Maker Filament.

I've been running ABS for a while and I'm just starting to run PLA with my e3d.  note, I completely disassembled and cleaned the nozzle prior to running PLA

195 on the nozzle
70 on the glass bed with aquanet. 

After about an hour, the stepper starts grinding filament.  I kill the print, hold the temp and try to push a bit while manually advancing the extruder stepper - no joy

BUT if I retract 10 mm and then go forward again, the material runs smooth and easy.

ideas?

Joe

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

2

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Sounds like you still have some ABS residue in your hotend that won't melt at the lower PLA temps. You should heat the nozzle to ABS temps then run a few feet of PLA through at that temp to flush the ABS out. Really you should have two extruders you can swap in and out. One for high temp and one for low temp. It is never a good idea or practice to go from a high temp filament to a low temp. It is possible, just not good practice for the reason you are experiencing.

3D Printing since the Cupcake (2009) and still addicted.
CT'c Duplicator Dual upgraded with MK10 extruders and Azteeg X3 Pro with Viki2 LCD with Marlin. Prints PLA, PET+, PETG, and ABS.

3

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Thanks Carl.  I was wondering that myself (still ABS in nozzle), good advice.  I'm working my way up the ladder of materials...I know that I went backwards starting with ABS on my new e3dv6....I just wanted to try some higher temp stuff first.  I'm so enthralled with 3D printing, I might just have to get a whole new solidoodle then. 

before I buy another solidoodle...and to be clear, you are suggesting that I buy another e3d v6 assembly...right

And how many assemblies would I need if I plan to exentually print with all the exotics?

I'm a science/engineering teacher at a middle school.  Our district is buying Afinia's.  I'm not too excited about this.  I want to stay in the open source side so I'm going to have to spend my own money then.

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

4 (edited by carl_m1968 2016-06-06 20:38:12)

Re: PLA troubles - strange

I just use one extruder for up to 200 and then another for temps beyond 200. I really have had no issues this way. Not I do have a dual extruder system so it is easier for me as I don't have to change the extruder physically. However it should not be too hard to design a quick change feature for swapping the entire E3D.

That or do the flush method mentioned at the cost of a few feet of filament but that beats a failed print.

3D Printing since the Cupcake (2009) and still addicted.
CT'c Duplicator Dual upgraded with MK10 extruders and Azteeg X3 Pro with Viki2 LCD with Marlin. Prints PLA, PET+, PETG, and ABS.

5

Re: PLA troubles - strange

pushed a few feet of clear PLA at 255.  no evidence of the black ABS.  going to try a print.  see what happens

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

6

Re: PLA troubles - strange

try upping that temp just a little - 195 on an E3D may be too low.

I have an E3D Lite6 on my kossel that runs PLA between 210 & 215, with a couple that need temps closer to 220 to run well.

SD4 #1 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan & upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #2 - basically the same as SD4 #1 now... wink
Folgertech 2020 Kossel kit with reprinted plastics and top mounted bearing spool feed
Folgertech FT-5 - in progress... (sold the 2020 Prusa)

7

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Instead of buying a whole new e3d v6 for different materials.  Is it reasonable to exchange nozzles?  Or is that risking too much damage changing out tips every week or so?

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

8

Re: PLA troubles - strange

I just ran a print on PLA at 220 (1 hr - 44 layers).  at ~35 layer, I heard the drive gear popping (meaning filament is being ground).  I paused the print, retracted 10mm, pushed forward 20mmm and then unpaused print.  not an elegant solution, but I got a print to finish.  I put a brand new nozzle on, yet my difficulties remain.  I'm confident that the PTFE tube is seated properly

I'm unsure of what to look at next.  Any ideas?

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

9

Re: PLA troubles - strange

What type of extruder assembly are you using?

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

10

Re: PLA troubles - strange

I disagree entirely that you need a whole new E3D V6 for different materials or temp ranges.  I have had one V6 almost since it came out and I have pushed 7+ different materials in all temp ranges thru it with almost no problems.  All discussions so far have focused on your nozzle and it is possible that you have a clog, but have you checked out your hobbed gear lately?  If it is dull or there is not enough tension between it and the idler, that can also cause filament grinding. 

With the heat on, remove the tension arm or similar from the hobbed gear.  Can you push the filament thru the hot end by hand?  If so, you can eliminate a clog as a potential cost. 

There are several potential causes here but just buying a new hot end is not the best solution.  It is designed to be able to print multiple materials.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

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Re: PLA troubles - strange

Thanks for quick replies.  Wardjr: I'm running a E3D V6 .4
mdrVB6:  good ideas.  The jobbed gear appears good and I've occasionally cleaned it with a toothbrush.  The teeth appear okay, but I'm unsure of how I can be sure of that.

I do want to change the temp I was running above.  I misstated the nozzle temp at 220 when I was really at 210.  I've restarted my print at 220 and things are going well.  layer 8.  I'm printing those cable chain pieces, a group of four.

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

12

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Let me rephrase my question.
What is holding the E3d in place?  Is it a stock acrylic assembly or an MK5 variant?

Also are you running a stock hobbed gear?

I will add that I agree 100% with mdrVB6 in regards to changing or needing multiple nozzles or hot ends.  Having 2 on one machine certainly would make this easier but really isn't needed.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

13

Re: PLA troubles - strange

stock hobbed gear.  I've replaced the nozzle with a new E3DV6 nozzle.  At 220, unit is running great.

This print just feels like it will succeed..don't they all start that way

I printed out a new assembly that seems to do the job.  want to get a new one that has cooling for filament when running PLA

http://soliforum.com/i/?Q61Dq5K.jpg

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

14

Re: PLA troubles - strange

what mdrVB6 said is spot on... I have had a v6 installed on my #1 for more than a year now, have run PLA, ABS including Glow in the darks, and a couple of different Nylons thru it with no problems at all.
Proper tension makes a LOT of difference.

SD4 #1 - Lawsy carriages, E3D v6, Rumba controller board, mirror bed plate, X motor fan & upgraded PSU & Mica bed heater
SD4 #2 - basically the same as SD4 #1 now... wink
Folgertech 2020 Kossel kit with reprinted plastics and top mounted bearing spool feed
Folgertech FT-5 - in progress... (sold the 2020 Prusa)

15

Re: PLA troubles - strange

thanks all, when the unit was clogged and grinding.  I was unable to push the filament through...but if I manually by hand or by repetier pulled back a bit and then pushed, the material ran smooth. 

replacing the nozzle and getting to 220 seems to have worked great.  now I can finally follow through on calibration. 

Thank you all for the help

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

16

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Okay, I've solved one problem....or eliminated potential problems, but I'm still getting intermittent jams. let me layout this out and see if there is a solution the forum can find
running: SD3 with E3DV6.  replaced 0.4 nozzle two days ago.  brand new nozzle
             PLA at 220C

event:  once every two or three hours (always near the end of a print) I'll hear the hobbed gear jump.  If I'm right there, I can pause the print, run the platform down a bit. back out the PLA 10 mm then run it forward 10mm twice.  use a card to catch the extra extrusion.  then hit go and keep a print going. otherwise I lose the print, but the backward and forward motion works.  the filament runs out of the nozzle reasonably straight.

my explanation:  I'm using cheap PLA?  it is expanding and then binding just prior to the nozzle.  Maker Filament from Makergeeks.com.  I'm not confident of this conclusion though.  Any other ideas?

thanks in advance, I always get good feedback from ya'll

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

17

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Do you have your PTFE tubing coming from the top of the V6 and traveling up as close to the drive gear as possible?  If the drive gear is stripping the filament you may need to consider upgrading to a Hobb Goblin.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

18

Re: PLA troubles - strange

MakerGeeks PLA isn't bad. Cheaper than Makerbot, but better than Inland.
Did you use the thermal paste when assembling the E3D? The paste helps "heat creep" into the heatsink, which is very helpful with low temp materials.

The Hobb Goblin is a fantastic upgrade whether you are having feeding issues or not. Keep in mind that this will require a different extruder. You can contact us at [email protected] if you cannot make one out of ABS...PLA is not recommended for extruder bodies.
It sounds more to me that you may have a problem in your settings for the final layers. Probably under solid layers or speed?

Regardless, this is what I recommend:
*Open the top of your enclosure if you can, or at least keep the door open. PLA takes longer to cool, so this may be helpful at least over time if not immediately.
*Many people print PLA with a .6 nozzle, but PLA works better for others, myself included.
*

joepayette wrote:

http://soliforum.com/i/?Q61Dq5K.jpg

This filament guide either warped in a highly peculiar way, or it is not structurally sound. Can you confirm that it is of reliable quality? The spring on the outside of the tension arm really relies on both the printed guide and arm to bare the force.

Printit 8.10 printer
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

19

Re: PLA troubles - strange

I shouldn't have said "always near the end"  that was meant more tongue in cheek.  sorry for that.
The jams can happen anytime so I don't think there is an issue regarding last layers.

I also noticed that the filament guide seems to have bent.  but from my perspective that does not seem to be "the issue" here

I open to getting the hobb goblin and that may be what is needed. 

so to answer your questions directly
the PTFE tube is a few millimeters (~4 mm) above the "swage" thing that captures it. 

I do not have my doodle enclosed as of yet.

I'm guessing that a more aggressive hobbed gear will only eat the plastic in these occasions.  I guess I'm saying that I think the filament guide and hobbed gear seem (from my perspective) to be operating within normal

I did not use any heat paste...I'm unsure of where I would have used it.  possibly between the nozzle and the heat sink?

I do take the time to tighten the nozzle while hot to assure a good thermal connection. (my engineering degree does come in handy once in a while)

Although I don't have good evidence, the back and forth action that relieves the problem feels to me like the problem is occurring between the hobbed gear and nozzle.  either in the Break or the PTFE or the transition. 

would you consider a replacement of the PTFE and/or Break to be reasonable avenues?  have you seen this problem solved by this type of replacement?

Thank you for the great responses

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

20

Re: PLA troubles - strange

What is your favorite .stl for the E3DV6 mount?

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

21

Re: PLA troubles - strange

I will reprint the filament guide to be sure of that....it's easy enough.  plus I'll do it in PLA which is more rigid

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

22

Re: PLA troubles - strange

For printed extruders, I prefer the exact one you have. The E3D Titan gives a rock solid fitting and already has the whole Hobb Goblin design worked in. It isn't the actual HG, but rather a revised gear made specifically for the Titan.
http://www.printitindustries.com/collec … n-extruder

I do not recommend PLA parts for carriages or extruders unless the are emergency "Hail Mary" parts. PLA is more rigid, but it is more brittle than ABS, and cannot sustain long durations the high temperatures unless you use a high temp PLA which does exist, and is made by ProtoPasta.

Get an enclosure figured out before printing ABS again. For just a filament guide, I can confirm you do not need an enclosure.

Printit 8.10 printer
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

23

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Thanks Azerate.  Good feedback; gives me confidence to keep on going.  I have had a few more jams and now when I pause the printer, I pull out the whole filament.  I'm seeing a type of stringing that just seems wrong.  like the PLA has something else in there.

once I cut the end off, the filament runs free and easy

I took a picture of the filament to get your opinion.  Does that look like something else in the plastic?

http://soliforum.com/i/?sTsOlzW.jpg

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

24

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Upon closer inspection.  the hobbed gear is not grinding, but stalling when the filament gets jammed

SD3 added E3DV6 and the Titan
still a rookie newbie, but learning.
Dreaming on building a large format from scratch

25

Re: PLA troubles - strange

Is the extruder motor getting hot?  Might need to increase your  VREF slightly.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions