1 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-03-12 23:06:13)

Topic: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I've got a crazy idea.  This guy posted his Core XY design on reddit that looks very interesting:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Reprap/comment … ing_voron/

I want one, but I don't really want to drop the cash on all those extrusions, rods, and Z axis parts (actually, extrusions aren't too bad).  I recently finished rebuilding the SD4 that I got off ebay, and I pulled the RUMBA, PSU, and hot end from my old trusty SD2 tp put on the SD4 so the SD2 has just been sitting there with no electronics.  I wonder how well it would work to just take the motor mounts and idlers from his core XY design and mount them to the frame of a solidoodle?

I'm willing to drill the frame, I've done it plenty of times for other mods.  I would need some spacers, which could be printed or wood (I have a wood shop).  If it works, I can have a Core XY printer to mess around with for minimal investment since I already have a working Z axis, and all the bearings and rods from my SD2 lawsy carriages can be reused (they are already the longer LM8LUU). 

Here's some pictures:

http://imgur.com/zrEnTf7.jpg

http://imgur.com/DsTy5rf.jpg

http://imgur.com/LMoeIUe.jpg

Experience building 4 printers has taught me that everything will take about 4X as long as I plan, so if I dedicate a day to this tomorrow, I can plan on having it done about a month from now if I'm lucky.  The smart move would be to throw the SD2 back together will clean wiring, stick a RAMPS on there and sell it and just put the money towards buying the extrusions and such that I know will work.

I am skeptical of a few things on this guy's design, mainly that there is no real belt tension adjustment and the printed Y rod holders could maybe be thickened up some but he does show videos of it working well.

What to do?  Anyone better than me at CAD want to help convert those mounts to line up on a solidoodle frame?

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

2

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I actually decided it would be easier to make my own motor mount and idlers and borrow the other components from the design I was inspired by.  Here is V0.1 of the motor mount, just to test the rivet cutouts and motor alignment.  V0.2 is actually designed but not yet printed, and it has a Y rod mount built it.  The idler design should go pretty smoothly now that I've got all the kinks worked out in openscad.

http://imgur.com/rjYwqtQ.jpg

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

3

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I'm very much interested in this. I've had my SD3 laying around for some time now and am just starting to get back and running. If you get it going and a decent walkthrough, I would be interested in converting mine as well.

4 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-03-24 15:39:13)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Good to see someone else is interested, I thought maybe this forum is emptying out as solidoodle dies off.

I have actually made a lot of progress.  Rear motor mounts with rod holders are done, front idler mounts basic geometry is done, just need to refine the screw head diameters.  Definitely read thru everything that was posted on reddit about the voron printer, all this will be is just a set of printed parts to fit that design into a solidoodle frame.  Unfortunately, family obligations are taking my weekend away from me but my next week, all my parts will be in and I can really get moving.

There is a chance this design will have the hot end mounted too high for the stock solidoodle Z rod to be able to get the bed up high enough.  I hope that doesn't happen because I really don't want to get into replacing the Z rod with this mod, I just want to play around with the CoreXY motion platform.

PM me if you want the openscad files, I will post them here when done.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

5 (edited by jagowilson 2016-03-24 18:55:27)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

mdrVB6 wrote:

There is a chance this design will have the hot end mounted too high for the stock solidoodle Z rod to be able to get the bed up high enough.  I hope that doesn't happen because I really don't want to get into replacing the Z rod with this mod, I just want to play around with the CoreXY motion platform.

Actually from my observation I think you're more likely to lose some Z space than gain it. Your belts are going to be on basically the same plane as they were before, judging from your pictures above. The center of the motor shaft looks like it's right in line with where the old back Y rod was.

6

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I will be following your progress as well.  This is a mod that definitely interests me.

7

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I am very interested in this. My second printer is going to be CoreXY. I have made a couple attempts to start one. I was building from scratch, but might convert if this goes well.

Solidoodle 4-Mostly stock running off headless Raspberry Pi with Octoprint

8

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

My dream post... I was looking at buying a core kit..
but since my sd3 is half incapacited I'm realy looking foward to this

Need any help? (or part?)

9 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-03-30 12:53:58)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Here is an update:  motor mounts and idlers mounts finished.  Modding a piece today to allow the Y endstop to hit nicely.  The mounts use some of the existing holes in the solidoodle frame but a few more are required, which you will have to drill.  The mounts contain a piece that slips over the edge of the frame to mark the holes.  I did M5 sized holes but I think that is way overkill since I have 3 holes per mount to hit each corner of the frame.  You could size down to M3 and probably be fine.

If you are considering doing this mod, print the X carriage and axis parts from the voron github linked in the above reddit post.  Also make sure you have 2 NEMA 17 motors available.  The solidoodle Y axis motor would work for one, and the extuder is also a NEMA 17 but I'm not sure if they are the same torque ratings and such.  I just ordered 2 new ones that are higher torque anyway. I also ordered the idler bearings off aliexpress and they took a little time to get here.  Also need 2X LM8LUU bearings and 2X LM8UU (which you might have if you did the lawsy carriages).  And some M5 low profile head bolts.  I'll probably have enough spare parts to put together 2- 3 kits to convert a solidoodle if anyone wants one at cost.  I'll need to finish this up first.

I did this in openscad to allow for easy adjustments.  I'm not all that good, so the code is somewhat sloppy.  At work now but if anyone wants them, I  can post later tonight.

http://imgur.com/Z0xTw1l.jpg

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

10

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Also note: the idler mounts and motor mounts are way over designed and too thick.  My goal was to make a robust mount, not see how little plastic I could get away with using.  The stock Y rod holes are not usable since the motors have to get in the frame and the Y rods must be a set distance both horizontally and vertically from the motor shaft.  So the mounts have Y rod holders built in, but this moves them in somewhat.  I might be losing some X travel, we will see when I get it all together.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

11 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-04-04 13:58:44)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I made some great progress this weekend!

-Pained the frame black
-Finished motor and idler mounts and installed them. 
-Gantry install complete.  Belts will wait until I have tuned motor Vref.
-RAMPS board mounted and wiring coming along.
-Extruder assembled and mounted.  Hopefully the hobb goblin works in an extruder designed for an MK7 gear.

Pictures:
http://imgur.com/mUxqdJd.jpg

http://imgur.com/c4b4i7d.jpg

http://imgur.com/YdB9Q9N.jpg

I still need to install the Z axis then dive into the firmware.  I need to figure out which end stop pins to use and figure out how this firmware works.  It is marlin but seems very different from the solidoodle firmware, especially with the endstops and heated bed.  If anyone wanted to start looking into that just to help me out... feel free!!  Thanks for looking.  This has been a really fun mod and not even close to done yet.

It should be noted that this is costing me some bed space.  It looks like I will still have the full 150mm on the Y axis but I will loose about 15mm off each end on the X axis.  That really hurts on a 150 mm bed, but my main goal here was just to play around with coreXY moves anyway.  Also, if you try this on an SD3 or 4, you must also add a longer Z rod.  The SD3 and 4 had more space in the top relative to the Y drive rod to allow some room for the filament to be feed.  So if you mount these blocks in the top corners, your bed will not go high enough to reach the nozzle unless you install a longer rod.  Just FYI.

Also, I can release the motor mounts so far.  I hope they are final enough.  I'll try to remember to throw them up on thingiverse tonight.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

12

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Very nice work. Please post some videos when it is moving.

13

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

My limited free time is the only thing preventing this from moving along.  The designer of the voron printer actually even made me some new carriage pieces to get a little X movement back.  I will have only a couple hours to put into it this weekend, but I will hopefully make more progress next week.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

14 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-04-12 22:22:11)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Parts link so far.  Looks like I should have time to install the Z axis tonight, maybe more...

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1486326

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

15

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Great work! I'm too busy to do this mod, but I'm excited to see your results

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

16 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-04-13 14:38:25)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I got the Z axis installed last night.  Since this printer has the hot end sitting between the X rods instead of in front of them, the whole bed plate will have to be moved back about 20mm unless I am okay with losing that amount off the Y axis.  The nozzle won't reach the front, and there is a lot of extra travel in the back.  I have another (better) bed heater and spare aluminum plate that I wanted to install anyway.  I think the bed leveling screws are M4 so I just have to order that size tap and corresponding pilot hole bit from McMaster.  But I will finish this build and at least get the motion system setup and moving correctly before taking it all apart again.

Ya, this mod is a lot of work.  I'm hoping it ends up being a much more rigid system than the stock or modified solidoodle but even that is not guaranteed.  Really its only worth doing if you really like tinkering.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

17

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I have been prepping for something similar on my now dead SD3.  After several Sanguino board deaths, countless 'Jigsaw' cracks (and replacement with the excellent Lawsy Mk5 extruder), I have accumulated parts to do something similar.  I have set up my criteria like this:

1) Single or maybe Dual extrusion (Bowden)
2) Replace the table (I have the all metal table)
3) Replace the X carriage
4) Add RAMPs to replace the Sanguino
5) Redo the walls and door I cut out of acrylic to use sheet metal screwed/bolted onto the angle iron with M3 hardware (with small acrylic viewports)
6) Pull filament in through a pair of PTFE tubes mounted to the rear top-center so that I can install a hinged top door (filament would come in sideways instead of arc-ed upwards, which allows for the lid)
7) Better heatbed

I was originally going to keep most of the existing mechanicals so now that I see a CoreXY revisit, I have to ask: in your opinions, is the existing motion system 'good enough', i.e. comparable to your run of the mill Prusa i3 (similar printers I own are the Da Vinci 2.0A and the CTC) or should I really wait for the CoreXY modification?  I'm starting to second guess myself and being the impatient sort, I guess I want to get it off my shop floor and into operation ASAP.

18

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Its not really a question of the existing motion system being "good enough".  A well constructed and calibrated cartesian machine and a corexy machine will produce similar results.  Each has their pros and cons, which are discussed at length by others.  I will say that these carriages seem to have a lot less play than the lawsy carriages due to having the bearings held in with pressure from bolts instead of snap fit.  The reduced mass of the X axis may yield slight speed and acceleration gains.  I hope to have it printing soon and I will update.  Only you can decide if the mod is a good choice for you.  There are a lot of parts to print and things to order if you decide to do it.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

19 (edited by mdrVB6 2016-04-21 00:13:48)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

It is alive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpnuUgb_wtA

This is the first print that went right, but there has been no calibration of the extruder yet.  Just wanted to see what it could do.  There is a clicking in the extruder that I need to work out.  I can't wait to get it dialed it!  I might make another, more detailed post with a BOM and instructions if there is interest.  I welcome all feedback.

Also gotta find the center of the X axis and get the offsets.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

20

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Great work, mdr!  Nice looking setup!

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

21

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

mdrVB6 wrote:

It is alive!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpnuUgb_wtA

This is the first print that went right, but there has been no calibration of the extruder yet.  Just wanted to see what it could do.  There is a clicking in the extruder that I need to work out.  I can't wait to get it dialed it!  I might make another, more detailed post with a BOM and instructions if there is interest.  I welcome all feedback.

Also gotta find the center of the X axis and get the offsets.

Excellent job, and may I say I love the high tech cooling fan support on your RAMPS board. wink

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

22

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

And I thought that was a hybrid fan and tool holder...you know; for Cool Tools big_smile

SD2 - Stock - Enclosure - Heated Bed - Glass Plate - Auto Fire Extinguisher
Ord Bot Hadron - RAMPS 1.4 - Bulldog XL - E3D v6 - 10" x 10" PCB Heated Build w/SSR - Glass Plate
Thanks for All of Your Help!

23

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Haha I just didn't have a screw on the right diameter to hold the case shut.  I have since zip tied it.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

24 (edited by jagowilson 2016-04-21 20:28:44)

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

Excellent work! Once you get it calibrated to your heart's content I am very curious to see how it will handle higher speeds, especially the frame. 100mm/s+ on there should be much smoother than it is with a stock drive. I would encourage you to do a video or other tutorial of installation at some point if you're up to it--it makes an excellent addition to Thingiverse postings and I can see many people wanting to do this.

Also, what belts did you use?

25

Re: Considering attempting this mod: Solidoodle Core XY conversion

I can already tell that it is a very smooth machine and I think it will have no problem going fast.  I hope that others want to do it.  Jago, Azerate, Ward?  It's really not too bad of a mod to do once you have all the parts.  I will make a post here detailing what bolts and nuts you need but there is no reason for me to repeat what is already shown on the Voron page (which has its own subreddit now).  I probably have enough bolts to make another one and if someone is seriously interested I can sell them at cost.  You will need some longer belts, and the idler pulleys... you can probably do it for about $80 or less if you already have some parts laying around.  More info coming

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed