1 Topic by Irish

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Topic: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

I've done Ian's feedrate adjustment in the firmware but there appears to also be a number of other locations that carry their own Feedrate settings. I see what appears to be some in Sli3r and also on the Manual Control tab of Repetier-Host there is both a Feedrate: and a Flowrate: slider.

What, if anything, are these two sliders for and what do they do if they work?

Does the Feedrate slider work as a percentage of the setting in the Firmware?

Is Flowrate the actual flow of the filament or is that a speed control on the head as it moves?

I've been trying to adjust both trying to see how they effect a print but I'm not sure I'm seeing much, if any, difference.

Anyone know what these are for? there's nothing on the Repetier-Host Manual. That hasn't been updated evidently.

2 Reply by rvanee

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

I experimented with these settings in Repetier-Host (so this is not really the same as knowing).....Running calibration boxes, I found that an increase to 200% feedrate required about a setting of 109% of Flowrate in order to maintain a calibrated single thread wall of .42, all else staying the same. I've used interpolated speeds in between on draft prints over the past few months and not had failures and get increased printing speed during prototyping.

The feedrate increase definitely increases the linear movement speeds of the head, but I don't know what else. The flowrate definitely increases the extruded amount of plastic, but I don't know what else.

"Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and
unconvincing narrative." Pooh in "The Mikado", Gilbert and Sullivan

3 Reply by devilman2075

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

If everything is 100 percent then it is equal to what you have set in your slicer profiles.  I think its mainly just for on the fly adjustments mid print, possibly small tweaks to calibration.

4 Reply by Irish

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

I'm trying to get the 'cobwebs' out of multi-column prints. Also the nodes that come off the side of a column as it moves from one to the other doing the layer print. I've tried about everything else including Retraction, Z Lift, etc. The Z lift seemed to cause more problems in the long run so I took that out.

Just trying to find out if anyone else has had this issue and how they might have resolved it.

5 Reply by nickythegreek (edited by nickythegreek 2013-01-16 17:03:30)

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

This should be controlled by your retraction settings. I use the following in my .3mm slic3r profile:

retract_before_travel = .5
retract_length = 1.2
retract_length_toolchange = 3
retract_lift = 0
retract_restart_extra = .03
retract_restart_extra_toolchange = 0
retract_speed = 75

Try lowering your extruder temp as well.

6 Reply by Irish (edited by Irish 2013-01-16 17:19:26)

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Here's a part I was working on last night. The treads (cobwebs) between the columns and the nodes that come off the columns was what I was working to remove. I tried various settings of the Feedrate and Flowrate but had set both back to 100% about six or more minutes before I returned and found this. The color is exagurated but there is a slight bit of color I think from some PLA gold that had been used quite a while back.

I think the issue was over heating of the controller board as it ran perfectly well this morning on another job. I've also had the Solidoodle crap out on me with instructions waiting but it doesn't work on them. I then took everything down and restarted a bit later and it worked perfectly well. Again I think a heat issue so a fan for the controller board appears to be a MUST.

http://www.rustystumps.com/solidoodlephotos/BadPart0.jpg

Nick, thanks for those values, I'll give them a try.

7 Reply by Irish (edited by Irish 2013-01-16 17:32:02)

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

nickythegreek wrote:

This should be controlled by your retraction settings. I use the following in my .3mm slic3r profile:

retract_before_travel = .5
retract_length = 1.2
retract_length_toolchange = 3
retract_lift = 0
retract_restart_extra = .03
retract_restart_extra_toolchange = 0
retract_speed = 75

Try lowering your extruder temp as well.


Nick, I'm printing at .2MM trying to get halfway between the .1MM and .3MM as I'm working in minatures I need fine surfaces. I know the Form1 unit would be the best but they won't have that out until May now and also I'm not sure I can justify the cost at my age. [grin] At 70 you start getting concerned about those things. [laugh]

I start at 95 on the bed and 195C on the filament. The filament changes to 193C after the first layer is printed. I've gotten some fantastic results but on column type pieces such as wooden barrels or oil drums. Anything else with variations of surface of multiple columns, areas, are basically a disaster or would take so much rework it would be easier to build by hand.

8 Reply by nickythegreek (edited by nickythegreek 2013-01-16 17:53:20)

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Oh ya, that thing looks like a mess.  Do you have the STL so that we can see what it was supposed to be?  And a picture of a correctly printed one could help as well.

I know that Kendall in the SD Google Group made a .25mm profile that he has posted.

I noticed in another thread that it looks like your SD2 does not have a case.  As you get to more detailed objects, keeping the printing chamber at a constant temperature is more important and drafts from the side can hurt your print too.

9 Reply by IanJohnson

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Is that PLA or ABS?  If PLA, you might have to reduce the temp.  Since PLA changes from solid to liquid rather than softening like ABS, the temperature range is much narrower and it is more prone to oozing since it is more runny.

10 Reply by Irish

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

IanJohnson wrote:

Is that PLA or ABS?  If PLA, you might have to reduce the temp.  Since PLA changes from solid to liquid rather than softening like ABS, the temperature range is much narrower and it is more prone to oozing since it is more runny.

It's ABS. I switched back to ABS because I wasn't getting the outter surfaces I wanted with the PLA.

11 Reply by Irish

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

nickythegreek wrote:

Oh ya, that thing looks like a mess.  Do you have the STL so that we can see what it was supposed to be?  And a picture of a correctly printed one could help as well.

I know that Kendall in the SD Google Group made a .25mm profile that he has posted.

I noticed in another thread that it looks like your SD2 does not have a case.  As you get to more detailed objects, keeping the printing chamber at a constant temperature is more important and drafts from the side can hurt your print too.

I'll have to regenerate the STL file tomorrow. I have the case for the SD2 but find it cumbersome plus I didn't like the very short turn the filament has to make feeding into the Head. Also, it's hard to get into the SD2 through the front door, much easier through the sides. I could reverse the feed off the spool and have it come through the hole in the back. I found that with this particular ABS short curves cause it to break. Just feeding the end through the holes in the spool, they are about 2" apart, will result in a break at one of them after a day or two.

12 Reply by Irish

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Here's a photo or a REALLY GOOD print.... Done at Shapeways on a sinted powder unit. This is a resin casting made from the original 3D printed piece. No real clean up, wasn't needed.

http://www.rustystumps.com/solidoodlephotos/GoodPart0.jpg

13 Reply by Irish (edited by Irish 2013-01-18 01:21:43)

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Excellent results. I adjusted a number of things.

1. changed to Jet Natural ABS filament
2. put the metal case back on
3. Added NicktheGreeks retract code
4. placed a small (3") fan to blow on the main circut board on the SD2

I got a really good print of the above twin exhaust vents with no cobwebs. Only a bit of an issue in the curved area (botttom) of the large block close to the top. There I got some nodes hanging out which I surmized to come from too much filament. I backed the Feedrate down to 90 in the Manual Tab and it seemed to solve that problem.

Big thing is the print made it all the way through without the scewing noted in the earlier photo. I'll take a picture tomorrow and post it.

Thanks for the feedback as it's helped greatly.

One issue I do have is the corners on the base are lifting, all four corners in about 1/8" lifting about 10 degrees. I was wondering if this if from too cool a bed so I heated it to 100C on this last run but it's still there a bit.

14 Reply by jon_bondy

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Irish wrote:

One issue I do have is the corners on the base are lifting, all four corners in about 1/8" lifting about 10 degrees. I was wondering if this if from too cool a bed so I heated it to 100C on this last run but it's still there a bit.

I can print at 80C so long as I use a Brim of 4 or so: you might give that a try

15 Reply by Tesla

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

jon_bondy wrote:
Irish wrote:

One issue I do have is the corners on the base are lifting, all four corners in about 1/8" lifting about 10 degrees. I was wondering if this if from too cool a bed so I heated it to 100C on this last run but it's still there a bit.

I can print at 80C so long as I use a Brim of 4 or so: you might give that a try


Do you have some type of cover over your SD?   The open air drafts make for poor warping.

16 Reply by nickythegreek

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

+1 for 4mm brim, it should help minimize that warp.

17 Reply by Tesla

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

Irish wrote:
nickythegreek wrote:

Oh ya, that thing looks like a mess.  Do you have the STL so that we can see what it was supposed to be?  And a picture of a correctly printed one could help as well.

I know that Kendall in the SD Google Group made a .25mm profile that he has posted.

I noticed in another thread that it looks like your SD2 does not have a case.  As you get to more detailed objects, keeping the printing chamber at a constant temperature is more important and drafts from the side can hurt your print too.

I'll have to regenerate the STL file tomorrow. I have the case for the SD2 but find it cumbersome plus I didn't like the very short turn the filament has to make feeding into the Head. Also, it's hard to get into the SD2 through the front door, much easier through the sides. I could reverse the feed off the spool and have it come through the hole in the back. I found that with this particular ABS short curves cause it to break. Just feeding the end through the holes in the spool, they are about 2" apart, will result in a break at one of them after a day or two.

I received jams of the filament from the back to the extruder.   Also noticed that the filament would sometimes get grease from the rods on it.  My fix works very well.  Get some tube from your local Aquarium store.  It's dirt cheap, fixes the problem and you don't need any expensive ptfe coating.

18 Reply by Irish (edited by Irish 2013-01-18 19:13:38)

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Re: Feedrate, Flowrate and adjustment of both

I'll give a Brim a try maybe tomorrow. I'm spending too much time with the SD2 right now. need to develope other products.

Anyway, I spoke a bit too soon. I have tried two seperate parts being printed at one time to see how the  'cobweb' issue plays out.... it doesn't as the attached photo shows. When printed singly this wooden barrel prints really nice. I tried it once with the two barrels closer together and the results were far worse. I stopped it before it was 25% done. I then tried it with the two barrels spread fairly far apart. There is a ridge almost the entire hight of the barrels where the hot end leaves to move to the next plus the piece seen below.

http://www.rustystumps.com/solidoodlephotos/BadBarrels1.jpg

Nickythegreek - My Slic3r screen doesn't seem to match up to your list. Below is a picture of it. I'm using the latest version of the software.

http://www.rustystumps.com/solidoodlephotos/Slic3r-RetractScrn.jpg