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Topic: Parts lifting

So I'm admittedly a newbie here. I've got a few fun prints under my belt but have already noticed that larger parts, particularly those that I'd call "elongated" (long but thin in X/Y dimensions) that they start to lift at the edges as the layers build. Eventually the extruder hits a lifted edge and pops the entire part off the bed.

This is obviously contraction of the material as it cools.

I have an enclosed SD4. I've let it run all day so I know the internal temp is as warm as it's going to get. This is 100% repeatable.

I don't believe any kind of adhesive on the bed is a solution, as that is addressing the symptoms, not the cause, so:
- is reducing extruder temp to the bare minimum for extrusion the answer?
- I've seen print cooling ducts, is forced-air cooling so the layer can cool on-the-fly (as opposed to the whole part) the answer?

Feedback please..
Thanks!

http://i1129.photobucket.com/albums/m511/andyspbpix/misc%20pics/2C460A0A-EC8B-4653-B459-4110DA199F95_zpsutaxxymt.jpg

Stock SD4 with 3/16" glass attached to stock (kapton-covered) bed with Aquanet.

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Re: Parts lifting

If printing on kapton, make sure you wipe the bed down with some acetone to clean any and all oils. The fan is great for PLA, but will not help for printing ABS unless your doing a print with large overhangs and zero support. But having a fan just to have it is always a good idea...just be sure to use it for the right applications.

Many users will tell you to use a glass surface. I can see you have the SD4, so go to a local glass shop, grab an 8x8x18 glass square. Keep the kapton on and spray the bottom of the glass with some AquaNet...this will keep the glass in place without having to use document clips. And lightly spray the surface of the glass. The only time I have lifting issues is with either a large print, or using a high infill (over 60%).

Printing with a good brim is also recommended. You will be able to cover more of the surface, allowing more bonding, by printing with it.
If all else fails, print with a raft. This will typically smash any lifting issue, but wil prolong the "cleanup" process.

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Re: Parts lifting

AZERATE wrote:

If printing on kapton, make sure you wipe the bed down with some acetone to clean any and all oils. The fan is great for PLA, but will not help for printing ABS unless your doing a print with large overhangs and zero support. But having a fan just to have it is always a good idea...just be sure to use it for the right applications.

Many users will tell you to use a glass surface. I can see you have the SD4, so go to a local glass shop, grab an 8x8x18 glass square. Keep the kapton on and spray the bottom of the glass with some AquaNet...this will keep the glass in place without having to use document clips. And lightly spray the surface of the glass. The only time I have lifting issues is with either a large print, or using a high infill (over 60%).

Printing with a good brim is also recommended. You will be able to cover more of the surface, allowing more bonding, by printing with it.
If all else fails, print with a raft. This will typically smash any lifting issue, but wil prolong the "cleanup" process.

+1 Glass and Hairspray or any other number of different print surfaces available.
With FDM Printing you will never completely eliminate the contraction of the plastic as it cools.  After all it has to cool some in order for it to have something to build the next layer upon.
So you could try a chamber heater of some sort to help increase the temp some but that comes at the expense of your electronics running hotter.
Past that you can try and squish that first layer more at a hotter temp and as mentioned brim always help.
Also you'll find with experience different filaments exhibit different sticking properties.
If that red filament is SD brand I can tell you from experience it is one of the worst.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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Re: Parts lifting

I'm wiping the (cleaned) surface down with tacky glue. The prints are pretty well stuck, but that curling is showing up on larger objects.

Two friends who print said glass really just levels out the bed, which isn't an issue here. Are you saying prints will stick better to glass than (clean) kapton? Heck, it's cheap enough to try anyway.

The brand is Toner Plastics. Local Microcenter carries it, $20/kg.

I thought about pausing after the first layer or two, and allowing the bed to cool before continuing?

Stock SD4 with 3/16" glass attached to stock (kapton-covered) bed with Aquanet.

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Re: Parts lifting

I am saying ABS sticks to glass better mostly because it is flat.  If your bed is as flat as a piece of glass then that's the first and only bed that is that flat.  The aluminum warps as it warms and cools so using hairspray under the glass creates a bunch of self leveling bubbles.  Don't discount the value of a good can of Aqua-net either.  For ten bucks of stuff you can pick up locally it's a great solution to an all too common problem.
The glass will stick to the bed only after a few heat/cool cycles.
Hope this helps

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

6

Re: Parts lifting

It does, thanks. Tried to pick up glass this morning but they wouldn't cut it to size and I don't want to fool with it. I'll hit a different store later. I did pick up some Elmer's glue stick, however.

Stock SD4 with 3/16" glass attached to stock (kapton-covered) bed with Aquanet.

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Re: Parts lifting

Update - so I had three failed attempts to print the filament guide above, the part to started to 'peel' at each end, and eventually the head would collide and knock the part loose.

I bought glass, used AquaNet to bond it to the bed (used clips for a couple of test prints, then removed them). I'm using Elmers purple school glue on the glass. Test parts worked great. First print of same part above *using a different filament* (SainSmart ABS) was perfect.

Just to be sure, I printed another with the same red filament as before ("Toner Plastics" from my local Microcenter), and it stayed flat and secure until the end. You can see how bad it was before.

Not sure how much is attributable to the glass vs. the glue, but why change anything if it ain't broke? smile

I guess if I have a small part that might lift, I could print two, one over a clean piece of the glass..

Stock SD4 with 3/16" glass attached to stock (kapton-covered) bed with Aquanet.

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Re: Parts lifting

This kind of sound like when you got same deviation problem with normal CNC machines when doing long steel bars.
If possible try changing print speed, or use really good kapton tape, but be sure to clean the bed first. Or did you mean that the AquaNet solved your problem?

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Re: Parts lifting

Sorry for the delay - I used aquanet to attach the glass to the original bed (with kapton still in place) - now I simply use the elmers glue stick on the glass, and have had zero print lift issues.

Now and then I will use water to clean and re-distribute the glue, and apply more (to a dry bed) when needed. Many prints on the glass without issue.

Stock SD4 with 3/16" glass attached to stock (kapton-covered) bed with Aquanet.

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Re: Parts lifting

Yeah sounds like setting down the print speed, clean the bed and use good kapton, aceton gets the job done.