1 (edited by napples 2017-02-13 20:00:05)

Topic: Motor Clogged?

I finally completed my assembly on friday, ran the machine for a few hours, no issues. Came into work today, ran it for a few more hours, then suddenly it stops working. I turned the CC dial on stall protection board a couple turns clockwise and the motor kicked back on and sputtered out shortly after. Which is why I believe it's a clog. My fans run, everything's lit up, and it kind of sounds like the motor is trying to spin. I'm trying to remove the barrel to see whats going on, I'm using vice grips near the threads of my attachment and can't get it to release. Or is it possible that my clog is on the nozzle end as this is basically one of my first runs?

Very confused, nothing changed and now it isn't working, any ideas would be greatly appreciated

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2

Re: Motor Clogged?

I did just realize that I no longer have my 1-2mm clearance space with the augur shaft, it's been so long since I did the mechanical assembly that I don't remember how I set up that gap, is there an easy way once I'm already at the assembled state?

3

Re: Motor Clogged?

I too double checked my clearance, since I was not confident that I had the load of the screw on the housing vs the gear box.

Here is what I did...

1. heated the head to 195
2. Waited 30 min
3. Took the four bolts out of the housing for the screw assembly (big ones around the metal tube with the auger in it)
4. Pull the screw assembly forward, which should let you trouble shoot the motor, since it's not attached  to a load anymore
5. Loosened the locking collar to insure that it moved freely (the thing that the bearings and washers press against)
6. Make some proof mark to measure your up coming effort
6.5 You may need to remove the motor to get proper pressure on the screw (depends on how long your wires are)
7. Manually press on the back of the screw (I used a socket wrench to turn it while adding pressure)
8. Once the screw has moved forward test fit it and find a few mm of play
9. Lock the collar in place and reassemble

This took me two tries to insure I was happy with the results. I consistently run at .70A so its good.
Also double check that you are getting up to temp on the head and giving enough time for the plastic to, well, get plastic enough to move.

Of course, you could follow the directions for removal of the head and begin trouble shooting from there.
One thought is to reverse the polarity of the motor and let it do the work of pulling the auger forward. I could see this going badly and tearing the crap out of your head, while removing the barrel from the base.

4

Re: Motor Clogged?

napples wrote:

I did just realize that I no longer have my 1-2mm clearance space with the augur shaft, it's been so long since I did the mechanical assembly that I don't remember how I set up that gap, is there an easy way once I'm already at the assembled state?

Sounds like this is your problem. Options are to push the auger into the barrel (with the barrel heated up) and reposition the shaft collar, or add some spacers between the gear motor and chassis.

5 (edited by napples 2017-02-14 17:09:44)

Re: Motor Clogged?

elmoret wrote:
napples wrote:

I did just realize that I no longer have my 1-2mm clearance space with the augur shaft, it's been so long since I did the mechanical assembly that I don't remember how I set up that gap, is there an easy way once I'm already at the assembled state?

Sounds like this is your problem. Options are to push the auger into the barrel (with the barrel heated up) and reposition the shaft collar, or add some spacers between the gear motor and chassis.

hm. Latter seems way easier. You're saying to add extra wood washers where I already have them, right?

Nevermind. I think I know what you mean. Won't be able to go this route because my motor wires would be too short to reach stall protection board, doesn't seem wise to extend them. Heating my nozzle now, going to try and move it and adjust the collar. Once I  pulled the augur off the motor I tried turning it on, and of course it spun, so we're narrowing down the issue for sure

6

Re: Motor Clogged?

You shouldn't have anything between the gear motor and chassis at the moment.

7

Re: Motor Clogged?

elmoret wrote:

You shouldn't have anything between the gear motor and chassis at the moment.

Sorry didnt think you'd be responding right now, edited my post too slow so bumping for you to see

8

Re: Motor Clogged?

http://soliforum.com/i/?RShXrOA.jpg

Looks like I have plenty of gap from the collar, but my shaft is bent to hell? Would that explain why nothing's working lol?

9

Re: Motor Clogged?

I even tried reversing the polarity of the motor, I can't get this thing to budge at all. When assembling I remember thinking I left too much of a gap for the collar, would that wiggle room ever change? I can't test it unless I can separate the augur from the shaft, but I believe I should still have significant play where the augur meets the motor. I think it jammed somewhere at a bent piece and then turning the stall prevention board 2 turns gave it more force to torque the shaft? If the collar moving during normal operation seems abnormal, then I'd say its almost guaranteed that I still have my gap, because I managed to get probably 4-6 hours of extrusion before I hit this point.

10

Re: Motor Clogged?

napples wrote:

Won't be able to go this route because my motor wires would be too short to reach stall protection board, doesn't seem wise to extend them. Heating my nozzle now, going to try and move it and adjust the collar. Once I  pulled the augur off the motor I tried turning it on, and of course it spun, so we're narrowing down the issue for sure

How would the motor wires be too short to reach the stall protection board? The gear motor and the stall protection board would-be moved backwards, the relative position of them to each other is unchanged since the stall protection board is mounted to the gearbox.

No issue extending the wires, at any rate.

11

Re: Motor Clogged?

That bent barrel (what I think you're calling a "shaft") is bad news. It means that the motor has been turned on when the rest of the auger could not rotate for some reason, perhaps before the plastic has melted. The stall protection board should prevent this occurring, but that is only a safeguard.

I don't know what is meant by "too much of a gap for the collar". During assembly there should be no gap between the shaft collar and the thrust bearing. The shaft collar/thrust bearing stack should be pushed towards the gear motor, so there are no gaps there. With the shaft collar/thrust bearing stack fully compressed, there should still be a few millimeters of axial play on the hex socket. If when fully assembled the hex socket has no axial play (the 1-2mm talked about in the instructions), then either the shaft collar was placed in the wrong position during assembly, or it slipped during use (wasn't tightened sufficiently during assembly). I suspect the latter in this case.

Next steps to repair are to heat up the barrel and extract the auger from the barrel. Once the barrel is bent it is not usable, but we do provide inexpensive replacements. Best to order through the contact form on the Filastruder website.

12 (edited by napples 2017-02-15 20:52:56)

Re: Motor Clogged?

How would it jam due to unmelted plastic if it jammed while extruding plastic? I heated the barrel to ~250C for a while yesterday and tried freeing the augur, including reversing the motor. Not sure how else I'm supposed to get it free other than pouring acetone down there? And yeah, I see what you're saying about the motor wires now. I wasn't looking at the unit when I responded and I guess I pictured it a little different in my head.

But there's no warranty or replacement coverage on any of these parts? Barrel bent during normal operation in such a short time I haven't even gotten the particles to stop showing up in the filament yet, we're within 8 hours of use still.. [edit: just wanna clarify I'm not getting salty, only seemed worth asking. Plus, I went to the store page and couldn't find the barrel separate?]

13

Re: Motor Clogged?

As far as I can tell, the initial motor stall event resulted from the shaft collar being positioned incorrectly, or slipping due to not being tightened sufficiently during assembly. That is what caused the motor to stop initially. It is hard to say when the barrel bent, but if I had to guess it occurred after the stall protection board's limit was increased, and then the motor was switched on before the plastic had fully melted.

Pouring acetone down the barrel is not likely to help, and will make future heating of the barrel dangerous. Given that the barrel is deformed, it will take some significant force to slide the auger out of the barrel, with the plastic heated above melting temperature. I've done it before two different ways:

1.) Use a long C-clamp to press the auger out, pushing from the nozzle side of the barrel.
2.) Use a set of pliers around the auger, between the shaft collar and flange to pry/work the auger out of the barrel.

You may elect to replace the auger and barrel instead of attempting to extract the auger, that's up to you.

It would also be a good idea to check the internals of the gearbox for damage from the thrust force ending up on the gearbox.

Replacement parts are provided in the case of something being defective/DOA, but given that it is a kit we cannot cover damage resulting from incorrect assembly. We have no way of knowing if it was assembled correctly, stall protection was set correctly, etc. What we do is provide inexpensive (i.e. our cost, no profit) replacement parts after talking through the situation with the customer so that the scenario is not repeated.

If we just put parts on the website, folks would be likely to repeat the same mistakes and become frustrated. That is why parts can be requested via the contact form on the Filastruder website (mentioned in previous post). I'm happy to provide a replacement barrel at no cost in this case.

14

Re: Motor Clogged?

Understood. Thanks very much, sent an email to ya. Just realized I've seen some posts where it seems different kits have varying diameters for the augur and barrel? Will you need to know which kit I have?

15

Re: Motor Clogged?

http://soliforum.com/i/?f06EOMo.jpg

So I finally got it back together and I'm again running the ABS pellets it came with, but running constant clogs. Even with the heat turned up to 250 I am clogging periodically, and of course all the way down to 180. I took one of the panels off to watch the inside as it turned to see if I could notice and issue. I'm assuming this is a problem? Pellets are coming through my barrel reverse, sneaking past the collar on the auger. Once one falls through, the clog clears for a bit until another works its way in there. Is this indicative of a simple fix, like move my collar forward more?

16

Re: Motor Clogged?

http://soliforum.com/i/?rVRAQ2C.jpg

Just wanted to clarify that the pellets are falling through where I have the paintbrush aiming. Also included my coupler in this shot which has the distance to slide between auger and motor

17

Re: Motor Clogged?

I saw you mentioned earlier that you reversed polarity to reverse the direction of the motor. Did you change it back?

As viewed from behind the motor, the auger should rotate counter-clockwise. Like the motor is trying to "unscrew" a standard screw.

18

Re: Motor Clogged?

I did switch it back. To clarify, it is extruding plastic out the nozzle at a snail pace if at all. Stall prevention light is always red.
I don't mean that all the plastic is coming through reverse, but just a non-zero amount and it clears the clog momentarily when it pops a new pellet out near the collar. My next thought was to remove a set of spacers or move the collar towards the motor

19

Re: Motor Clogged?

Just verified that it is turning counter-clockwise when looking from the motor, towards the nozzle

20

Re: Motor Clogged?

Plastic pellets should not fall out of the back, but a few doing so doesn't hurt anything. I would not recommend removing a set of spacers, as that would move the auger towards the motor. At what RPM is the motor turning currently?

It is possible the gear motor's bearings were damaged by the thrust force.

When you installed the new barrel, I assume at that point all of the plastic was removed from the barrel. Then you probably heated it up, waited 10 minutes, and poured in plastic then turned on the motor. What happened after that? Did the motor run without triggering stall protection?

21

Re: Motor Clogged?

Is RPM one of the outputs on the stall board, or something I'd need to calculate?

And yes, you are correct on my replacement workflow. It extruded a little bit, then slowed down to the "red light crawl" I can get now. You can both watch the pellet and hear them as they work individually backwards, once it falls through the auger runs pretty normal for <5 sec until it snags another pellet. I will try dropping a set of spacers. If, in your experience, pellets coming backwards doesn't hurt anything, but it's causing me issues, makes me wonder, can my stall prevention board be giving wrong readings if the wiring isn't perfect? At some point I needed to add some length to a wire so I just extended with crimp and it's been itching at the back of my mind that I should replace that with a single wire. When I remove the spacers I'll check to see which wire that is exactly

22

Re: Motor Clogged?

Removing spacers didn't help. If anything, seems worse. Tomorrow I will try going to 3 per stack. I had been using digital calipers to measure the 84.5(?)mm distance between auger hex end and nearest collar face. Today used a laser at my lab we use for measurement. 84.5mm (or whatever it says on my printed instructions) is definitely too close to the motor. Is that an estimate in the manual or are there varying sizes in different runs or something?

23

Re: Motor Clogged?

napples wrote:

Is RPM one of the outputs on the stall board, or something I'd need to calculate?

RPM is rotations per minute, you check it by counting the number of rotations per minute of the output shaft of the gearmotor. You can observe it from the backside of the gearmotor.

napples wrote:

Removing spacers didn't help. If anything, seems worse.

That is why I recommended against removing the spacers.

84.5mm is a starting point, the actual distance depends on tolerance stackup. All of the parts, particularly the amount that the barrel threads into the flange, can vary slightly. When added together it can be a few millimeters in either direction.

Adding spacers shouldn't hurt, and would probably make it easier for any stray pellets to fall out instead of getting stuck somewhere.

I would recommend clearing all of the plastic out of the barrel, heating up to 180C, starting the motor, letting it run for a few minutes, then add a teaspoon or so of ABS pellets, and watching what happens to those pellets. They should all be carried forward, and the gearmotor should be running at about 7 RPM the whole time. Then add another teaspoon, and so on.

Another option would be to send it to me, and I can refurbish it (at no charge) as time permits and send it back tested. That will probably take a month or so though including shipping time, just to be realistic.

24

Re: Motor Clogged?

http://soliforum.com/i/?MP7IGZy.jpg

I'm working on getting all the plastic from the barrel so I can continue, but in the meantime I was rereading everything and assembly instructions to see if I missed anything. In this picture, you can see the thrust bearing and collar are pressed together. But in doing so, it leaves a gap between the collar and the interface of barrel + flange, which is where the pellets come through reverse. Is the proper setup supposed to have the bearing and collar tight while also having no gap between collar and flange? If not, I was thinking maybe I had my hopper adapter too far towards the motor, allowing pellets to fall behind the auger somehow? I moved the hopper forward after flipping it 180deg.

I had figured the stacking tolerances part, which makes me wonder if maybe my auger diameter is a bit too off, but I had totally forgot that the barrel and flange are pre-assembled. I would imagine you don't sit there and count each 16th of a turn hah.

Since I already have my motor on the frame, and the instructions say to complete this step while simultaneously installing the motor, should I (once auger is free) push coupling onto auger, mate with motor, while pushing auger into motor, tighten collar so it is pressing bearings, then slide on barrel? When I read the 1-2mm play on the coupler, I thought it meant in a lateral way, moving 1-2mm in the vector of motor to nozzle. Re-reading your post you said axial, meaning the same vector as auger rotating?

25

Re: Motor Clogged?

Yes, there should be a gap between the collar and the barrel/flange. Generally no pellets should get to that area though, as the auger should be sliding them forward as it rotates.

The hopper should be centered over the barrel's cutout.

You should have 1-2mm of axial play like the attached video. If that is not the case, then either the shaft collar needs to be repositioned, or you can install spacers between the gearmotor and chassis like mentioned in post #4.

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