51

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

You know lawsy, it sounds like the problem may go  much farther than your Z rod. You mentioned you drilled out your stepper mounting holes to get better alignment, but still getting visible wobble.

Wobble has less to do with mis-alignment and more to do with coupling. If you constantly have to fight it, I would start to suspect that either your motor coupler or the stepper shaft are the culprit.

Yeah, threaded rod and/or hardened shaft straightness is the obvious source of wobble. But I am going to assume that you have checked these before/after installation. If the rod is straight, but the coupler has it at even the slightest angle, then you get wobble. I am kinda hoping you have a spare Z motor to test this out.

If not, then the only way I know to eliminate wobble is a constrained system (or more of a typical linear system). Have your hardened rod kept straight by using bearings on both the top and bottom, and then puposely use a flexible coupler for the motor. This forces the rod to be straight with the system, and makes the alignment of the motor negligible.

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

52 (edited by 2n2r5 2013-10-21 18:14:24)

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

+1 to Hazer Good suggestions. I made a 608ZZ bearing holder a while back for the old threaded rod. I am sure that it would work for this situation also.

http://2n2r5.com/pictures/printer/show-n-tell/IMG_0216.JPG

http://2n2r5.com/pictures/printer/show- … venter.stl

You might also want to make sure you don't have any wobble in the carriages. I know a few of us had some slop when we switched to the new carriages. U-mold jammed around the bearing helped a lot. It's weird that your M5 period seems to be about the same as the threadless ballscrew. I have no idea what to make of that.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

53

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Thanks for the tips guys.

I didn't actually drill out the stepper mounting holes yet. I loosened the bolts which seemed to help although I was getting inconsistent Z heights.

I then switched to a 12mm acme leadscrew I had tried previously with wobble hoping it might be better. I was but still not great.

I cut down the second of my 8mm rods and fitted it with the threadless ball screw again to get the pictured results.

Previously when I fitted a guide at the top like you've posted, it just transferred all of the wobble to the stepper motor end to the point where the sheet metal base of the printer was flexing back and forth as the stepper moved.

Might be time try some more experimentation with alignment.

54

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Is it easy to remove that nut that was originally on the aluminum bed for the threaded rod? or did you have to drill it out?

55

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

PEM Nut removal

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2990/bos … -consumer/

56

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Ok, I'll be working on mine the next two days. I will be using the stock stepper and driver. How do I calculate the steps per MM?

57

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

@techbuilder2175

Did you ever mill these out of metal?  I would think with high tolerance milling that this would be an AWESOME part.  I'd be interested in one if you have perfected it.

58

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

I'm going to apply this in a few weeks. How do you remove the threaded rod from the stepper motor?

-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)

59

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Still awaiting steps per mm calculations.

Kevlar - http://www.soliforum.com/topic/2990/bos … -consumer/

60

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

I've just installed this, and it seems to be working. I'll show off my comparison prints as soon as I can.

I'm getting a lot of slipping on the return trip (raising the bed). I've been using my hand to offset the weight of the bed. Any advice to automate it?

-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)

61

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

I've fixed my slipping issue by changing to lawsy's four-bearing configuration, and putting a second set, offset underneath the platform (8 bearings total).

How do I upgrade from Newbie to Member, so I can post pictures?

-SD3, E3Dv5, boz's E3D extruder, ABS from Sainsmart, mirror bed + dried hairspray + ABS slurry
-KevlarGorilla's 8x bearing threadless ball screw, 2n2r5's spring'd bed stabilizer
-fts_ltx's x-carriage, lawsy's v5 y-axis carriages, 2n2r5's beltless drive
-Overhead filament holder on 8mm rod, custom fillament feed, paeltz's simple enclosure, mini heater (opt)

62

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

KevlarGorilla wrote:

I've fixed my slipping issue by changing to lawsy's four-bearing configuration, and putting a second set, offset underneath the platform (8 bearings total).

How do I upgrade from Newbie to Member, so I can post pictures?

I think you can post pictures after 5 posts maybe it's 10.  Either way just submit a few more posts until it allows you to post pictures.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

63

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

KevlarGorilla wrote:

I've fixed my slipping issue by changing to lawsy's four-bearing configuration, and putting a second set, offset underneath the platform (8 bearings total).

For me, with the four bearings it's so tight that it cuts a shallow groove in the rod. The underside second set sounds like a winner.

64 (edited by Hazer 2014-02-14 19:22:11)

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

I just installed this into my HBOT using 2n2r5s original STL. Its nice. There is no discernible backlash and moves sweet. I dont see any banding or wobble.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7404/12525513725_93845d60eb.jpg

I do have one problem. When the bed moves up, it slips. Alot. I have everything as tight as it will get, and the bearings themselves still rotate, but there are little 'stutters' and the bed does not move up for a partial rotation. As far as printing goes, no harm as homing is not effected and the downward movement stays tight. It does mean that I will not be able to install auto bed leveling. I was going to measure the reverse steps/mm and use the new directional thing in Marlin to compensate, but if the system is slipping at all, this will all be worthless.

So, has anyone else had slipping? is it due to how much weight I have on the bed, or the fact that the part is printed (vs an aluminum one made for this)?

Chuck Bittner is a quadriplegic gamer who is petitioning the major console developers to include internal button remapping in all console games. You can help.
Sign Chuck Bittners petition

65

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Hazer, try printing this with 100% infill. The bearings will get loose if you don't. Also, setting the "snug" setting to max helps quite a bit also. I had problems with slipping And those solution s fixed me right up. Great to see this implemented on something other that a Solidoodle.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

66

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Hazer wrote:

So, has anyone else had slipping? is it due to how much weight I have on the bed, or the fact that the part is printed (vs an aluminum one made for this)?

In an upwards direction you will always get slippage and different movement rates than downwards. It's an inherent issue with this setup. You can limit it to various extents but you will not eliminate it. The reasons have been discussed extensively in this thread.

67

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Hey 2n2r5,

Don't know if you are still around these days but this mod got linked to on hackaday today!

Like here, lots of people commenting on why it's not a good idea but I've done the mod on two printers and both print better than ever since doing it.  Cheers!

68

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

That is awesome! I monitor this thread. I still use this on my printer. Every 6 months or so, I switch to a freshly printed body to mitigate fatigue issues. I'm glad that you are sharing the same success. Thanks for posting!

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

69

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Ha! Double post, you must be some kind of newbie wink

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

70

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

wardjr wrote:

Ha! Double post, you must be some kind of newbie wink

What do you speak of? I see no double post.

{{quickly deletes extra post}}

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

71

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

I am just wondering where this mechanism came from, from some machines or new idea?

72

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:112718 is where I saw it. It is not my original idea. I just made a script and produced versions that could be used on solidoodles.

SD3 w/ mods:
Glass bed with QU-BD heat pad upgrade, threadless ballscrew w/ 8mm smooth rod, spectra line belt replacement, lawsy MK5 extruder, Lawsy replacement carriage, E3D hotend, Ramps 1.4 w/ reprap discount controller, DRV8825 drivers, 12v 30A PS, Acrylic case, Overkill Y-idlers, Filament alarm, Extruder fan + more.

73

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

Thanks alot

74

Re: Thingiverse "Threadless Ballscrew" - Customizable (level 2 - Techie)

I don't know if 2n2r5 still reads the forum. It's pretty quiet these days. But I thought this was interesting. An extruder using basically the same principle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aG0J3YIvRz0