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Topic: E3D Titan extruder

I must say that I am impressed with the packaging and overall presentation of the new extruder from E3D. As usual, this is a DIY part that the user must assemble and all tools required are supplied.
http://i.imgur.com/eCM8qkk.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/GG52mFu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wt9KnbK.jpg

This can be used as direct feed of bowden, but I will be going through the ins and outs of how to mount for direct. While E3D has done a great job at making this extruder cross compatible between many printers, including the Solidoodle, it must be pointed out that a printed adapter is required for those of us who have upgraded to Lawsy's carriages and wish to continue direct feed extrusion. I'm cleaning up the design a bit, and will share the file as well as provide a more in depth assembly review and hopefully report performance later today.
That's enough for now, enjoy the teaser! tongue

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

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Re: E3D Titan extruder

Nice! I need to order one of these.

SD Press - v1 (Pre-order) / RAMPs /w DRV8825's / Cyclops (25w) / Dual Bowden / Mk8 Gear / MK2b PCB Heat bed /w custom replacement Z / PEI Bed
SD2 / E3D v6 / Direct Drive / Mk8 Gear / RAMBo v1.3 / PEI Bed / Anti Z backlash mod / Ikea Expedite enclosure.
Both Driven by Octoprint (devel) via a RPi B+ / Neopixel status alerts / GPIO Controlled SSR / (SD2) 450 Watt PSU for remote power-up/shutdown.

3 (edited by AZERATE 2016-04-11 00:10:33)

Re: E3D Titan extruder

I am having motor woes unrelated to the Titan at the moment, so no so and tell prints yet. However, here is a mount as promised.
This should work with the stock SD X carriage, but I can only confirm it with Lawsy's carriages at the moment. An M3x12mm socket cap will be required in addition to trigger the endstop.
http://i.imgur.com/VtyzV49.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/042y5cv.jpg

File is attached. Print 100% infill or it will be too flimsy.

Post's attachments

Titan mount for Lawsy v2.stl 639.04 kb, 29 downloads since 2016-04-11 

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Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

4

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Are you using a 0.9 degree motor and DRV8825 driver with this?  That should make a crazy high number of steps per mm and very high resolution.  I'll probably do it too when I get done with my current project.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

5

Re: E3D Titan extruder

0.9deg and a DRV8825 would make for a step rate limitation if you're using Marlin. Probably best to stick with 1.8deg and 1/16 unless you're printing pretty slow. More here:

http://www.soliforum.com/topic/14527/vo … imitation/

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Re: E3D Titan extruder

Unfortunately we can't use the .9 for the motor. I told jagowilson of my intentions and he said Marlin doesn't work right when steps/mm exceed 100,000. I just calibrated the Titan and am running a test print around 821 s/mm with a 1.8 which still has more steps than the .9 motor.
Stated steps are using a DRV8825 just to be clear.
I will be revealing a full writeup along with pics today

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

7

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Thanks for all the info so far.  We can probably come up with a good way to put some more holes in that mount plate that you can use to zip tie some wires into for restraint and to keep it tidy.

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

8 (edited by jagowilson 2016-04-11 18:26:25)

Re: E3D Titan extruder

AZERATE wrote:

Unfortunately we can't use the .9 for the motor. I told jagowilson of my intentions and he said Marlin doesn't work right when steps/mm exceed 100,000.

10,000.

elmoret brought it up before, and I was pondering it some more and did some math for the hobb goblin running on a 1.8 at 1/16 microstepping in the thread as well:
http://www.soliforum.com/post/120916/#p120916

you can get away with between 10,000 to 20,000 but I wouldn't exceed 20,000. To find out how many steps are done at a particular speed just do mm/s*steps/mm = steps/s

9 (edited by AZERATE 2016-04-12 16:58:39)

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Official Titan Review

http://i.imgur.com/jiLpiTV.jpg

After setbacks completely unforseen and almost 100% unrelated to the Titan, I am happy to give my report on the extruder. This cuts back on mass more than the Soliforum community standard of a printed MK5/MK6, and gives some Z height back. Here's the perks:
*You can cold load filament! This means you can turn the Acetal gear by hand until the filament hits an obstruction may it be cooled filament in the nozzle, or the nozzle itself. This is a great feature for people who tinker a lot.
*Rock solid v6/Lite6 mount with an exceptionally solid filament guide.
*You get back about 5.5mm of your Z height. This means something to current v6/Lite6 users, but it means even more to Volcano users.
*Less mass. Far less mass than a Bulldog.
*Increased resolution and print speed optimized for Volcano users as
well as the most daring v6/Lite6 user

I tested and compared with the following setups:
*Bulldog XL, A4988, v5, .4mm nozzle
*.9 motor, DRV8825, E3D Hobb Goblin, v6 w/.6mm Volcano nozzle
*1.8 SD stock motor and gear, DRV8825, Lite6 w/.6mm Volcano nozzle
*1.8 SD stock motor, E3D Hobb Goblin, A4988, v6 w/.6mm Volcano nozzle
*1.8 SD sotck motor, E3D Titan, DRV8825, v6 w/.6mm Volcano nozzle

As an owner of a Bulldog XL and an even cheaper and easily manageable .9/HG/MK6 setup, I am very surprised with the results.

The Titan's 3:1 gear ratio increases speed performance alongside resolution, and rivlals my best setup. Wardjr, elmoret, and jagowilson have an open conversation here backing up the math and science limiting a Volcano and 5:1 geared extruder. It is a good read especially for tinkerers first getting their feet wet with geared extruders. The E3D Titan seems to help that, though I haven't had enough speed testing to push "elmoret's law of extrusion".
:insert elmoret's approval of said law:

So here's a few things Solidoodle users will find important if not interesting:
*Print the mount I shared a couple posts above. The "arms" face the motor and act as a guide for a Nema 17.
*Install the steel gear onto the motor shaft with the grub screw closer to the motor. Give about 5.8mm distance from the closest face of the motor if you are using my mount.http://i.imgur.com/42Q27gj.jpg
*Cut about 49mm of the supplied PTFE
*Get rid of your collet. This can be easily done with pliers after removing your heatsink. You can use a 2mm hex key to push it out from within if needed. Grasp the collet in opposite edges to avoid damage in the event you would like to reuse your current setup without ordering more parts. However, leave the brass fitting in.
http://i.imgur.com/b7hY3lX.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1aY0Mrn.jpg
*Insert the PTFE from the bottom of the heatsink through to the E3D supplied filament guide. This should sit tight but not forceful between the guide and heatbreak once reassembled.
*Continue with the Official E3D Titan Assembly
*It is important to note that the Acetal gear and steel gear must be flush. Press the Acetal gear in to see how it will sit once everything is tightend. And do not overlook E3d's warning on the spring! It is understated that you must completely loosen the spring before assembly/disassembly.
*Don't forget to reset your bed height as well as your X endstop trigger.
*After observing a few test prints, you may find that you will need to change you retraction distance.
*At this time, you can only use the E3D v6 or Lite6 with the Titan unless you use the Bowden adapter
*You will notice that you have a nozzle that has now shifted roughly 8mm forward and 6mm right. Be sure you adjust gCode as needed.

Results:
Titan print at .3951 height
http://i.imgur.com/P3aqM2H.jpg
Same Titan print versus .9/Hobb Goblin with same settings. The Titan obliterated any trace of moire the old setup used which may only be seen in person since an iPhone is bad at take close pics.
http://i.imgur.com/MpGwuvB.jpg
Zero moire
http://i.imgur.com/YRgK792.jpg

Takeaway:
I will be honest that even though I am a hardcore E3D fan (surprise!), I wasn't expecting much with the Titan. It didn't perform too much better than a slightly cheaper setup like my .9/HG rig, but it does have some features I genuinely like such as the cold loading that I would have paid for. The stiff hotend mount and rigid filament guide cannot be overlooked here. While there are many designs out there, undercalibrated printers make printing extruder bodies unreliable at times, so the Titan affordably helps users in dire need. The added features previously mentioned also make the Titan a reliable extruder for veteran users or users looking into modifying several aspects of their extruder. In short, this product under promises and over performs especially considering the cost. And the ability to change and upgrade motors with other Nema 17s makes this a fun upgrade.

EDIT: if you are using 1/32 microstepping, your initial E steps/mm should be in the ballpark of 821.62. If you are using 1/16 (A4988 or Printrboard), halve this figure for a similar ballpark.
EDIT 2: I just tested with a stock X carriage and I can confirm my mount is cross compatible for stock SD2/3 carriages!
Happy Printing

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

10

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Thanks for the review, looking forward to your thoughts over time as well.

Worth noting also that the 3:1 gear reduction lets you use a short stack motor, like this one:

http://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-1 … p-101.html

and still have torque comparable to a normal size NEMA17. This short stack motor weighs 120g, where standard NEMA17s are around 300g.

11

Re: E3D Titan extruder

The original start gcode I faithfully used made the Titan slam into the bed stabilizer bracket using G1 X10 Y10 F3000 so here's a new start code. Please feel free to copy+paste, and report back with success, failures, or improvements.

G21; set mm units
G28 ;home all axis
M190 S[first_layer_bed_temperature] ; set and wait for bed temp to be reached
M104 S[temperature] ; set extruder temp and start heating
G90; set absolute coordinates
G1 Z5 F300 ;move platform down 5mm
G1 X10 Y18 F3000 ;move to front left corner
M109 S[temperature]; wait for extruder temp to be reached
G1 Z[first_layer_height] F200 ;move platform close to nozzle
G92 E0; reset extrusion distance
G1 E4 ;extrude enchor
Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

12

Re: E3D Titan extruder

I tried for a generous amount of time last night to print with TPU using the Titan and I failed every time. After adjusting spring tension, print speed, and temp, the flexible material reliably bound and kinked after passing the pinch point. I was able to print a few feet of TPU, but the job failed around the 8th layer.

Frustrated, I'm moving on to Nylon and PLA once my Makergeeks order is delivered. Unless someone else can reliably print flexibles with the Titan, I'm passing on it for a few weeks. For ABS, the Titan is a beast, but Ninjaflex and the like will need a different approach even if software settings are identical to what you would use for the MK6 extruder, which I found odd.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

13

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Hmm. TPU should be printable. I'll get Sanjay in here to help.

14

Re: E3D Titan extruder

That would be awesome.

I've thought that perhaps the top PTFE wasn't low enough and allowing travel pre-extrusion, but once I opened the faceplate up, it doesn't explain the kinks past the gear.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

15

Re: E3D Titan extruder

For what it is worth I finally got  my titan with ED3 working on my Folger tech prusa I3 2020.

Has to change the logic on the extruder motor to turn the propper direction  and ended up with 441.5 steps/mm on my machine.

Soliddoodle 4 stock w glass bed------Folger Tech Prusa 2020 upgraded to and titan /aero extruder mirror bed
FT5 with titan/ E3D Aero------MP mini select w glass bed
MP Utimate maker pro-W bondtech extruder
Marlin/Repetier Host/ Slic3r and Cura

16

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Hey AZERATE

We've been printing TPUs of various types on Titan without much drama. The usual flexible material caveats apply in terms of making things go a bit slower (Start @10mm/s or so and work up, depending on the stiffness/softness you should be able to do 20-30 with most), having a bit more retract than usual (1.5mm works for us). Temperatures for TPU are extremely sensitive and I usually find there is a tight 3 degree window in which they work best. For Ninjaflex this seems to be around 227C on a standard E3D-v6.

The most important bit of info is how soft the specific TPU you're using is. Our softest TPU that we've used is Ninjaflex which is Shore 85A (or around Shore 40D). Which TPU are you using, and do you know the hardness?

Sanjay

I Design/Sell the E3D all-metal hotends. My company is called e3d-online - you can buy at www.e3d-online.com

17

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Sanjay! The man, the myth, the legend smile

The TPU I've been using has a shore of 95A and I will admit I was pushing the TPU fairly fast. I went from a .9 motor+Hobb Goblin+v6+Volcano .6 setup to 1.8+Titan all else unchanged. On the old rig and settings, I was able to pump TPU out at my ABS speeds around 206c....my ABS speeds are on the fast side as well.

While I own a Bulldog XL (not sure why I do at this point), I have never used a geared extruder for flexibles since it is a pain if not impossible to allow a proper guide for flexibles on the Bulldog, so I admit I am in new territory with this material and extruder setup.
Thank you for your time!


On a separate note, I can confirm to the SF community that the Titan works great with Nylon, PLA, and PETG on top of the standard ABS. Pics whenever I have time...hopefully by next year wink

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

18

Re: E3D Titan extruder

I took the last couple of days' minuscule amount of spare time to get my home extrusion rig back up and running, so I haven't taken the time to retry TPU yet. However, the Titan rocks for PLA and gives a MK6+Hobb Goblin a serious run for it's money. I recently did a possitive shorthand review of MakerGeeks PLA here which shows the detail of not only different brands of PLA, including the coveted MakerBot PLA, but also the detail of different extruders, motors, and drive gears used.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

19

Re: E3D Titan extruder

I got my titan hooked up as a bowden extruder to my SoliVORON printer this weekend and I'm extremely impressed with the results.  This was the first print after the calibration steps, which required no adjustments.  I went with the 456 steps/mm suggested in the wiki, and I did not touch the extrusion multiplier in cura, just left it at 1.0.  So basically no calibration and its already getting nearly flawless quality and awesome resolution.  This is printed in colorfabb XT-CF20 at 0.2mm layers and about 45mm/s.

http://imgur.com/zoacK5m.jpg

http://imgur.com/ievZ7WK.jpg

SD4 w/ RUMBA, E3D Volcano, all bearings, glass bed

20

Re: E3D Titan extruder

So what you're saying is I'd be nuts not to put a Titan on my new custom hack job?

Of course I know what I'm doing.  I googled it.

21

Re: E3D Titan extruder

I wouldn't call you nuts, but the Titan is pretty damn swanky.
There are dozens of parts combinations that will give the Titan a run for its money, like in my original post, but the Titan benefits are too strong for other setups to compete with.

Printit Mason and Printit Horizon printers
Multiple SD2s- Bulldog XL, E3D v5/v6/Lite6, Volcano, Hobb Goblin, Titan, .9 motor, Lawsy carriages, direct Y drive, fishing line...the list goes on
Filawinder and Filastruder #1870.....worth every penny!

22

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Yeah, but it also seems that the Titan is about $40 less expensive than it's best competitor if you don't count the hobb goblin.  When you throw in the fact that it does flexibles out of the box, it seems like a no-brainer.  I'm trying to figure out how to mount a pair of them on my Workbench too.

Of course I know what I'm doing.  I googled it.

23

Re: E3D Titan extruder

Guess I'm about to find out.  Just need to finish my printer now.

Of course I know what I'm doing.  I googled it.