1 Topic by josh.aeauto

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Topic: Which board should I use?

Some of you might already know I'm looking into building a 3D printer. I already have some parts on the way, but I need to get a board for it. What would you guys recommend and why?

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
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2 Reply by TickTock

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Re: Which board should I use?

I am in the same boat.  I decided to go with Smoothie just because of the increased processor performance.  Should be able to trace complex shapes more accurately.  I am going to have to add extra stepper controllers, though, as it only supports up to 5 natively

3 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Which board should I use?

TickTock wrote:

I am in the same boat.  I decided to go with Smoothie just because of the increased processor performance.  Should be able to trace complex shapes more accurately.  I am going to have to add extra stepper controllers, though, as it only supports up to 5 natively

Just of curiosity, I'm going to ask this.  How exactly is the improved performance going to affect the print??

You mentioned tracing.  Are you referring to the generation of the GCode?  That's done by the slicer in the host PC.  Are you referring to the path the tool takes?  that's controlled by the GCode generated by the slicer. 

In fact, considering that all the processing is done by the host PC, and the only thing the controller board has to do is interpret GCode commands, I can't see how improving the performance of the controller CPU can possibly impact the output.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

4 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Which board should I use?

ARM based controllers can do G2/G3 arcs, which are smoother than straight-line piecewise arcs. The benefit is small, but definitely there in some use cases.

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5 Reply by jagowilson

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Re: Which board should I use?

elmoret wrote:

ARM based controllers can do G2/G3 arcs, which are smoother than straight-line piecewise arcs. The benefit is small, but definitely there in some use cases.

what slicers emit this? simplify3d dropped it a while ago because most boards are too slow for the computation. slic3r doesn't do it by default but it may be an option.

6 Reply by TickTock (edited by TickTock 2015-08-24 23:33:12)

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Re: Which board should I use?

pirvan wrote:
TickTock wrote:

I am in the same boat.  I decided to go with Smoothie just because of the increased processor performance.  Should be able to trace complex shapes more accurately.  I am going to have to add extra stepper controllers, though, as it only supports up to 5 natively

Just of curiosity, I'm going to ask this.  How exactly is the improved performance going to affect the print??

You mentioned tracing.  Are you referring to the generation of the GCode?  That's done by the slicer in the host PC.  Are you referring to the path the tool takes?  that's controlled by the GCode generated by the slicer. 

In fact, considering that all the processing is done by the host PC, and the only thing the controller board has to do is interpret GCode commands, I can't see how improving the performance of the controller CPU can possibly impact the output.

I was referring to the support of the G3 codes (which others have indicated are not used by most slicers) and the look-ahead acceleration management which supposedly enables faster & smoother printing (where the board gets its name).  Also, since I intend to experiment with the firmware a bit, I wanted to make sure there are cycles to spare.

7 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Which board should I use?

elmoret wrote:

ARM based controllers can do G2/G3 arcs, which are smoother than straight-line piecewise arcs. The benefit is small, but definitely there in some use cases.

Interesting.  Something new I learned today.

Thanks.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

8 Reply by elmoret

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Re: Which board should I use?

pirvan wrote:
elmoret wrote:

ARM based controllers can do G2/G3 arcs, which are smoother than straight-line piecewise arcs. The benefit is small, but definitely there in some use cases.

Interesting.  Something new I learned today.

Thanks.

Here's a nice photo comparison:

http://www.cosineadditive.com/blog/2015 … d-printing

Filastruder - the robust, inexpensive filament extruder
E3Dv6 All Metal Hotend - the premier 3D printing hotend

9 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Which board should I use?

Apparently the latest version of Crafware slicer now supports vector slicing

http://www.craftunique.com/craftware

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

10 Reply by IronMan (edited by IronMan 2015-08-25 14:58:11)

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Re: Which board should I use?

Although not fancy, I have had great success with the RAMPS 1.4...it has replaceable drivers, can support up to 2 extruders (if you give up a PWM controlled fan), and there is a ton of well documented support on it.

Downside is it won't support 24V so heating a larger than 8 x 8 heat bed directly requires an SSR...and it certainly won't support the G2/G3 arcs as mentioned above.

I hear the RUMBA is a great board as well, if you can get your hands on one...not sure if it incorporates an ARM processor.

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11 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Which board should I use?

I haven't tried the latest version of Craftware yet, but will this weekend. 

According to the Craftware change-log, the software is now vector driven by default, and I don't think they would have made that change if the software wouldn't have worked on the majority of printers on the market.

I too have a RAMPS, and I'm pretty sure it will work just fine.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

12 Reply by grob (edited by grob 2015-08-26 03:26:01)

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Re: Which board should I use?

RUMBA = 8-bit atmel AVR / arduino, but integrated on the board. It is a great board, works well, has removable drivers, and plenty of I/O to play with.

This craftware thing sounds like it's worth a look... Is the config easy enough? Would love to see whether it really is generating G3/4 commands in the output... "Vector" sounds a bit vague and internal, not sure it means it's outputting arcs. If the input is STL, then the curves are already segmented: is it actually detecting the curves based on the segments? That would be quite an achievement!

The main reason something like a smoothieboard will do arcs well is both the gruntier ARM processor to calculate the movements, and that it's aimed at CNC routing applications too, which usually do use arcs, so the user base will be regularly using and testing G3/G4 movements. For Marlin, which is basically only aimed at 3D printing and g-code from STL slicers, the G3/G4 commands might work but won't get nearly the same amount of testing as nobody will be actively using them!

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13 Reply by josh.aeauto

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Re: Which board should I use?

So the only supplier for Smoothieboards in North America is this site called uberclock.com - has anyone else ordered anything from them?

http://shop.uberclock.com/collections/smoothie

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

14 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Which board should I use?

That's where I ordered my Smoothie from, took a few days for it to actually ship.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

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15 Reply by pirvan

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Re: Which board should I use?

Just gave the Smoothie a look, and while they certainly packed a lot of features into one board, I can't see paying for something I probably won't use 1/2 the functionality of.

Then there's the integrated stepper drivers.  Not a big fan of that.  These are 4982 steppers, and they charge basically $20 a pop.  That's pretty steep.

I don't know.  You can do better for that money I think.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

16 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Which board should I use?

pirvan wrote:

Just gave the Smoothie a look, and while they certainly packed a lot of features into one board, I can't see paying for something I probably won't use 1/2 the functionality of.

Then there's the integrated stepper drivers.  Not a big fan of that.  These are 4982 steppers, and they charge basically $20 a pop.  That's pretty steep.

I don't know.  You can do better for that money I think.

I completely agree, as far as usable features I still like the Rumba the best.  I have 3 Rumba's and have never had a problem with any of them.  I know some users have had issues with the 16U2 chip (USB).  I have even had a few of those users ship their boards to me.  Thus far I have been able to recover all but one.  That particular board belonged to AZERATE and the first time I fixed it and sent it back working.  Within a few days it failed again and the second time around I wasn't so lucky.  I tend to lean towards operator error more so than the chip being faulty. 
The point is for exactly all the reasons pirvan stated you can get many more useable features and a board with replaceable drivers (a huge plus) for the same or less money.

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
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Thanks to all for your contributions

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17 Reply by josh.aeauto

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Re: Which board should I use?

Does anyone in the US sell Rumba boards?

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

18 Reply by wardjr

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Re: Which board should I use?

MakerFarm

Printit Industries Model 8.10 fully enclosed CoreXY, Chamber heat
3-SD3's & a Workbench all fully enclosed, RH-Slic3r Win7pro, E3D V6, Volcano & Cyclops Hot End
SSR/500W AC Heated Glass Bed, Linear bearings on SS rods. Direct Drive Y-axis, BulldogXL
Thanks to all for your contributions

wardjr's Website

19 Reply by josh.aeauto (edited by josh.aeauto 2015-08-27 14:14:53)

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Re: Which board should I use?

Okay, I did some research on the Rumba board and I really liked it, so I went ahead and ordered one from MakerFarm along with some DRV8825 stepper drivers and a 5" LCD display.

Thanks guys!

-Prusa i3 MK2s
-Airwolf HD2x w/ E3D v6 + Volcano
-Custom built Solidoodle 3 clone w/ E3D v6+ Volcano    -Solidoodle Press w/ E3D Lite6
Filastruder #1577

20 Reply by TickTock

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Re: Which board should I use?

pirvan wrote:

Just gave the Smoothie a look, and while they certainly packed a lot of features into one board, I can't see paying for something I probably won't use 1/2 the functionality of.

Then there's the integrated stepper drivers.  Not a big fan of that.  These are 4982 steppers, and they charge basically $20 a pop.  That's pretty steep.

I don't know.  You can do better for that money I think.

I agree.  Disappointed that there isn't a Smoothie option to use standard stepper modules.  However, there is are 4 pin connectors on the board with the controls for each driver enabling reasonably easy use of external drivers.  X&Y are really the only channels I want/need to upgrade so I am thinking once I start pushing the speed of my printer, I will replace those with external drivers on a separate breakout board.  It is a little more expensive, but I expect to spend a LOT of time on this project so I'm not going to let $50 get in the way of it being what I want.

21 Reply by grob (edited by grob 2015-08-28 01:40:59)

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Re: Which board should I use?

I have used both the RUMBA and (currently) the Smoothie.

Smoothie Pros:
* Firmware current control of steppers (this actually makes them more difficult to tune by ear; I like using the trimpot!)
* Ethernet interface (just a serial-over-ip interface; the web thing is no replacement for octoprint)
* Configuration is flexible and clear, this and firmware itself (!!) can be updated on the fly via USB/SD card. No arduino IDE / flashing procedure (this is tops)
* Nearly every control pin is broken out to a header
* SD card is provided/integrated/necessary, works straight out of the box (supposedly the most reliable way to print from this board)
* Extra grunt reduces chances of non-time-critical things like LCD getting in the way of stepper/PID control (these issues pop up every now and then on 8-bit boards).

Rumba Pros:
* More logical board layout (slightly, definitely a subjective opinion!)
* Removable pseudo-standard driver modules
* Cheaper (just)
* Marlin firmware is more 3d-printer-specific, and development is livelier, so new/fun features likely to be supported earlier

In summary:

I believe the advantages of the smoothie's performance (32-bit 96MHz ARM) currently do not translate into real value gain for a 3d printer - even though the extra grunt could in theory support better temperature, motion and extrusion control than an 8-bit uC could (16MHz 8-bit AVR), which was my main hope in trying it out, in practice the firmware basically implements the core functions similarly to Marlin (GRBL-based motion control, vanilla PID for temperature control, no (working) extrusion advance). The only present advantage is the ability to run higher combined steprates (e.g. for running a couple of 256x ustep external drivers, for example) - which is usually a little outside typical needs.

Get whichever you can afford and like the look of, as either will likely serve you well. But hoping that the smoothie firmware starts taking advantage of the hardware is a gamble that has kept a fair few people waiting for a couple of years already!

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

22 Reply by bnj

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Re: Which board should I use?

Well said grob,

Very informative and well detailed post right there, I'm standing up, and applause silently !!

I personnaly went for the smoothie little sister, the azteeg x5 mini, which is just what I need for the SD3. It gives no possibilities to upgrade the machine though, no 2nd extruder possible.

If you ask me why I did that, well... It's a hard question to answer... Maybe I just wanted to upgrade my sanguino, and the vikki 2 screen is a real plus.. And I love messing with new stuff mainly !! :-D

SD3, early 2013. Silicon 200W 8x8 heater bed, lawsy carriage on 8 mm hardened chrome shafts, E3D V6 and lawsy MK5 extruder, ATX 350 W PSU, Custom build plywood enclosure, azteeg x5 mini smothie firmware, with vikki 2 screen, fishing line conversion and pulley conversion, M5 Z rod. Calling it Gran'ma, going strong ! <3

23 Reply by grob

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Re: Which board should I use?

bnj wrote:

And I love messing with new stuff mainly !! :-D

Hear hear! smile Good luck!

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

24 Reply by veehoo

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Re: Which board should I use?

Just to chime in since I just got this working after a few evenings of tinkering. I got a good deal on a cheap china clone of smoothieboard (namely this: http://www.aliexpress.com/item/3Dpriter … 68763.html ). Back when I ordered it, it was running around $80,- but I found it used for $35,- on ebay.

I was running the original SD4 printrboard so to me the upside was DRV8825 drivers and a 2nd hotend mosfet (in addition to fan mosfet) for possible future upgrades. And the fact that it's ARM32 wasn't hurting.

The downside was the fact the my board was version 1.0 and required a little fix to 5V supply and the fact that smoothie developers aren't exactly happy about the clone, as I've later found out.

But as I said, the board had been on the bottom of my drawer for half a year maybe before now putting it on, and first impressions are good. Lots of options to do stuff in addition to extended functionality. I like.