26 (edited by grob 2014-06-01 23:23:23)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

+1 on opposite corners. But consider the rotational axes as well... There are 6 axes to constrain here, and you want the threads to only constrain the one that they're supposed to move in - i.e. linear z. Given the tight tolerances you're aiming for, may as well have a good crack at them all.

X,Y, rZ - (over)constrained by linear rods
Z - constrained by one threaded rod (with 2 you have to keep them aligned well, as it's technically overconstrained)
rX, rY - perhaps split these up a bit differently, imagine two diagonal axes from corner to corner. Assuming you have the diagonal corner threads, rotation about the line between the two smooth-rod corners would be constrained by the two threads (their z-constraint is tangent), but rotation about the line between the two nuts is not really constrained by the smooth rods (their free direction is tangent to the rotation). I'd recommend having the bearings and the nuts at different heights from the bed to fix this - e.g. nuts on top, bearings below, 10-20mm spacers each. No additional $ parts needed, and only downside is it might eat up a bit of z travel.

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27

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

OK, here is the variant with the lead screws cross-corner from each other. 

I made a few additional changes.  First of all, I changed the platform from aluminum to acrylic/plexiglass. I will be using 3/8" (9mm) thick plexiglass.  The advantage is that I can cut it myself using a router, and I can also glue stiffeners if I need to to the underside, plus it's going to be cheap.

At the same time, I was l thinking that having longer linear bearings on the smooth rods, would prevent any twisting or skewing due to the cantilever design.  However, a LKM8LUU (long) us about $14 a pop.  The standard short version LKM8UU, is only $4, so I can buy 4 of those for the price of one single long bearing.

So out of necessity the over and under design was born.  This should compensate for the over-constriction grob mentioned.  Another "accidental" by-product of this design was that the smooth rods and the lead screws are not in line with each other.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5442
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5443

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28 (edited by pirvan 2014-06-02 07:00:00)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Quick Update...

I just finished designing the Z Motor holders and the smooth rod guide holders, and ultimately, it looks like I ended up with something similar to what Hazer was suggesting, and inside bracket.  The more I look at this the more it looks like total overkill, but what the hell... it's only plastic.

Here is a less cluttered view of the lower half of the printer.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5445

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29

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Personally I'm a huge fan of overkill.
Looks quite sturdy, I dig very much.

This is a crowd funding thing that I'm running: http://www.gofundme.com/bvi140 It's for pretty selfish reasons tongue

30

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Serin wrote:

Personally I'm a huge fan of overkill.
Looks quite sturdy, I dig very much.

My sentiment exactly. I may attempt to build a printer next year and I was already thinking of something very similar to this. Brilliant thread.

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31

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

pirvan wrote:

I think this thread is better of there, so if the Admins or Moderators can help, I'd like to get my thread moved to the Projects forum.

Moved. Good looking printer...

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32

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

DePartedPrinter wrote:
pirvan wrote:

I think this thread is better of there, so if the Admins or Moderators can help, I'd like to get my thread moved to the Projects forum.

Moved. Good looking printer...

Thank you.

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33 (edited by grob 2014-06-02 23:52:54)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Looking good. smile Not to keep turning into a design review, but as another suggestion, I'd thicken up that neck near the bearing flange in the acrylic bed a little, there's quite a narrow section there in the diagonal at the moment. It needs to take a bit of bending potentially, and depending on the machining it could be a source of fatigue cracks... I don't see any impact doing something like this:
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5446&download=0

Do the controllers and power supplies etc. have a home yet? There's probably a fair bit of space in the bottom of the box under the bed in this design, at least up to the top of the motors right?

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34 (edited by pirvan 2014-06-03 14:08:20)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

There's enough room at the bottom for everything, so I think I'll add an electronics box there somewhere.  The PSU (server type) will be somewhere at the back, since it's too large to put inside.

So this brings us to the electronics.

I currently have 2 extra logic boards, an original Sanguino that came with my SD3, and a Geetech Printrboard, flashed with SD firmware.  I was originally thinking about using one of those, but now that I'm into this up to my ass, I'm thinking about getting another RAMPS with LCD.

And as a by product of that, I'm now thinking dual extruders ... this needs to stop somewhere. 

I need help!

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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35

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

pirvan wrote:

There's enough room at the bottom for everything, so I think I'll add an electronics box there somewhere.  The PSU (server type) will be somewhere at the back, since it's too large to put inside.

So this brings us to the electronics.

I currently have 2 extra logic boards, an original Sanguino that came with my SD3, and a Geetech Printrboard, flashed with SD firmware.  I was originally thinking about using one of those, but now that I'm into this up to my ass, I'm thinking about getting another RAMPS with LCD.

And as a by product of that, I'm now thinking dual extruders ... this needs to stop somewhere. 

I need help!

You don't need help... you need a banker wink
Keep up the good work

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Thanks to all for your contributions

36

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

You have at least two Z motors. That puts the printrboard out. Besides, you need to fix traces on it to drive any decent heaters. i have it myself and burned the traces on the stock doodle.

Anyway, the Sang might work, but you would probably be better off with a RAMPs or Azteeg.

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37

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Yeah, I'll be getting a RAMPS, but for the moment I'll do a single extruder version. 

If the printer turns out to work OK, then I'll convert it to dual extruders.  At least the electronics will be ready for it, and it will only be a matter of redesigning the print head and the extruder motor brackets.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
...and too much time on my hands.

38

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

I've been busy for the past week or so making the plastic parts for the printer and assembling the frame. 

I've also finished sorting out the extruder design.  I wanted something different and very compact, so I think I achieved that.  The only question is will it last.  If not, I'll re do a more beefed up version.

Anyway, here are a few photos of the assembled frame.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5519
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5520
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5521
http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5522

I'm currently waiting for the order I put in with RobotDigg for the smooth rods, lead screws and motors.  I also ordered a RAMPS board, a 12864 LCD and a 10"x10" MK1 PCB heater. 

So far everything is proceeding according to plan.... cool

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Stealth3D Printer 003.jpg
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39

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Here is what the dual extruder setup would look like

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5523

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40

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

looking good.

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
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41

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

All looks lovely. Nice work!
The face-to-face extruders are cute - can you still get in there if you strip the filament?

SD3. Mk2b + glass, heated enclosure, GT2 belts, direct drive y shaft, linear bearings, bowden-feed E3D v5 w/ 0.9° stepper
Smoothieboard via Octoprint on RPi

42 (edited by pirvan 2014-06-12 04:37:27)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

grob wrote:

All looks lovely. Nice work!
The face-to-face extruders are cute - can you still get in there if you strip the filament?

I should be able to get in there OK, but I'm not entirely sure.  I can always move them further apart if I need to.  I'm printing another extruder right now, So as soon as I can install it on the frame, I'll find out how close or how far I need to mount them

You may have already noticed that I printed some corner pieces to be mounted on the inside faces, similar to what you had mentioned earlier.  It helps keep the frame square in all directions and add extra strength.

BTW, thanks again for the grooved bearing idea.  Here is a picture showing the bearing installed.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=5534

Update.  It would appear I need about 1/2-3/4" or so between the extruders to be able to get my fingers in there.

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43

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

pirvan wrote:

Yeah, I'll be getting a RAMPS, but for the moment I'll do a single extruder version. 

If the printer turns out to work OK, then I'll convert it to dual extruders.  At least the electronics will be ready for it, and it will only be a matter of redesigning the print head and the extruder motor brackets.

Did you consider the RAMBo board? I like this board and you can add also a Viki controller.

https://ultimachine.com/rambo

http://www.adafruit.com/blog/2013/01/10 … dthursday/

CB

44

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

I already have a RAMPS on my SD3 and I'm familiar with it, so I'll go with that.  It supports dual extruders, GCode controlled fans and an LCD, so I'm good with it.

I do like the Viki LCD but I think it's just to expensive for what it is, I can get a graphic LCD controller with SD card support for less than $20.

AS for the RAMBO, I looked at it before, but it too is nearly twice the cost of a RAMPS, and I'm also skiddish about the integrated steppers.  I've had problems with steppers before and with removable ones it's easy to just swap the bad one out.  So I think I'll stick with the RAMPS.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
SD3 printer w/too many mods,  Printrbot Simple Maker Ed.,  FormLabs Form 1+
AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
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45 (edited by CrazyBear 2014-06-15 15:08:40)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

pirvan wrote:

I already have a RAMPS on my SD3 and I'm familiar with it, so I'll go with that.  It supports dual extruders, GCode controlled fans and an LCD, so I'm good with it.

I do like the Viki LCD but I think it's just to expensive for what it is, I can get a graphic LCD controller with SD card support for less than $20.

AS for the RAMBO, I looked at it before, but it too is nearly twice the cost of a RAMPS, and I'm also skiddish about the integrated steppers.  I've had problems with steppers before and with removable ones it's easy to just swap the bad one out.  So I think I'll stick with the RAMPS.

It make sense. I had to replace a step driver on my Sang. smile Where do you buy the RAMPS? I found some but I am not sure if those are knockoffs.

46 (edited by pirvan 2014-06-17 18:49:18)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

I got my RAMPS from eBay.  The guy had a bunch of them and was asking only $45 with 5 steppers, so I bought one, but he's out now.  If I wanted to get one reasonably priced and shipping from the US, I'd look at Folger Technologies on eBay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mega2560-R3-4x- … 1059517985

I bought stuff from him before (and so have others on this forum) and his product is good and reasonably priced.  Here is a link to a RAMS with 4 steppers and a graphics LCD screen.  You can buy additional steppers from him for only $4.

As for "knockoffs",  technically, all these are some kind of knockoff, as they are open source hardware, so anyone can make them.  The only "branded" component if you want to call it that would be the Arduino board.  If you want the real deal, then you'll pay a bit of a premium for the Arduino branded board.  But I don't think there's such a thing as an "original/official RAMPS board.

BTW, I have a couple of these, both Arduino and a Mega 2560 clone, there's virtually no difference between them, and both work flawlessly.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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47

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

updates?

SD2 with E3D, SD Press, Form 1+
Filastruder
NYLON (taulman): http://www.soliforum.com/topic/466/nylon/

48

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Nothing at the moment,  I got my nwe Printrbot Simple and I've been playing with that for the last week or so. 

I'll get back to the printer when I return from my vacation in a couple of weeks.  I got most of the parts already, including the stuff from RobotDigg. 

Most of the printable parts are printed, and next up is cutting the smooth and threaded rods to length.

I'll finish it ... sooner or later.

To print or, 3D print, that is the question...
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AnyCubic Photon, Shining 3D EinScan-S & Atlas 3D scanners...
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49 (edited by osmanharac 2015-08-27 13:21:31)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

pirvan wrote:

Nothing at the moment,  I got my nwe Printrbot Simple and I've been playing with that for the last week or so. 

I'll get back to the printer when I return from my vacation in a couple of weeks.  I got most of the parts already, including the stuff from RobotDigg. 

Most of the printable parts are printed, and next up is cutting the smooth and threaded rods to length.

I'll finish it ... sooner or later.

Looks promising.
I wish I have time and resources to start something like this.
did you have a chance to finish this project?
I would love to see the speed with the ballscrews.
thanks

50 (edited by pirvan 2015-09-27 18:14:54)

Re: Precision 3D Printer ... Revisited

Haven't done a thing with this.  It's still sitting in a box.  I have everything except for the hot end, and the acrylic bed pate.

I did however revisit the Solidworks model for an alternate extruder. 

I've been eying the new Cyclops, I do like the idea of a dual extruder with a single nozzle output.  So I did some revisions to my model to reflect that.  So I revised the "X" carriage to accept the Cyclops hot end, as well as the extruder mechanisms themselves.

Here is a rendering of this alternate version.

http://www.soliforum.com/misc.php?action=pun_attachment&item=9208

@osmanharac     I would love to see the speed with the ballscrews.
The ballscrew is a lot slower than a belt.  A GT2-20 sprocket, provides 40mm travel/rotation.  My ballscrews move 5mm /rotation, so they're about 1/8 the speed of a belt drive at the same RPM.  Increasing the RPM's (to match the belt speed) will lead to a decrease in torque (& holding torque).  However the ballscrews have their own holding torque, so the motor will not have to work as hard. 

All things considered, I think I should be able to drive them at 80-100 mm/sec with good performance, and near perfect repeatability.

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